Crime Methed Up Former Marine Kills 4, Including Infant

oldshadow said:
Most of them and the men of other racist that were killed because they refused to do what they were told.

Sure there are bad cops with bad shooting of all racist of people and they need to be held accountable.

But a lot on the left hold up justified shootings as bad ones.
Click to expand...
Which ones?
 
oldshadow said:
Most of them and the men of other racist that were killed because they refused to do what they were told.

Sure there are bad cops with bad shooting of all racist of people and they need to be held accountable.

But a lot on the left hold up justified shootings as bad ones.
Click to expand...
When did it become the rule that cops must never have to deal with an uncooperative suspect without killing them? It'sike they go from zero to execution the instant a suspect doesn't 100% comply.
 
oldshadow said:
?
Which one what?

Google it. Do you want me to Google and link a bunch of good shootings
Click to expand...
No, just to realize that shootings and lethal brutality occurred against unarmed victims.
 
scoopj said:
Not when you consider frequency of police interactions. But stop derailing the thread. Start a new one if you want to talk about it.
Click to expand...
That's why I talked in person capita terms. And as far as derailing the thread goes, what's really up for debate here? I think we're all in agreement on who the bad guy is here.
 
RogerB08 said:
When did it become the rule that cops must never have to deal with an uncooperative suspect without killing them? It'sike they go from zero to execution the instant a suspect doesn't 100% comply.
Click to expand...

You act like cops are going around shooting unarmed POC.
 
LangfordBarrow said:
No, just to realize that shootings and lethal brutality occurred against unarmed victims.
Click to expand...

It does happen but not as often as the left wants everyone to believe. Most all shooting by the cops are justified. That doesn't excuse the ones that are not.
 
oldshadow said:
It does happen but not as often as the left wants everyone to believe. Most all shooting by the cops are justified. That doesn't excuse the ones that are not.
Click to expand...
But cases like Arbery and Floyd are unjustified no matter how villainous they're made out to be.
 
RogerB08 said:
And another white man who killed numerous people is taken into custody alive.
Click to expand...
Lol dude
He came out with his hands up.
Grady Judd even said they would have shot him up if he'd given them the chance but he surrendered like a coward.
 
LangfordBarrow said:
But cases like Arbery and Floyd are unjustified no matter how villainous they're made out to be.
Click to expand...
Arbery wasn't killed by police
Floyd wasn't killed because he was black, he just happened to be black.
Next?
 
RogerB08 said:
That's why I talked in person capita terms. And as far as derailing the thread goes, what's really up for debate here? I think we're all in agreement on who the bad guy is here.
Click to expand...


I'm just gonna repost something I did in another thread that pretty much still applies here. It's full of stats showing quite specifically why you're assumption is wrong. You're not going to respond to it with any sort of empirical data of your own that's comparable in scope. You're just going to point out disparities and assuming why they exist. If you actually have anything to say, please make sure it's actually substantiative and takes these figures into account, and preferably start a new thread and discuss it there instead of here.


Spoiler tags because the post is long.
Bob Gray said:
I have zero issues with reform. But it has to be done practically. At the end of the day anything statistical often has to be done with a deep dive of sifting through variables and factors. If someone wants to argue that blacks are more likely to be shot, OK. Im not even gonna argue, but the notion that its somehow overwhelmingly one sided to the point where police represent an inherent danger to people with black skin is a totally different scenario.

Stats get complicated in something like this. 13% of the population are killed by the police in 25% of the shootings. So thats obviously racism, right? But when that group of 13% commits over half the violent crime, that changes the context considerably.

I'll be honest, way back in ancient history (about a year and a half ago), I took a great deal of time to respond to a friend of mine on facebook when she asked about this topic. Im just gonna cut and paste that post because I think the majority of it still applies here and I don't really feel like digging through all the data again. So at times the post might seem a bit random and lacking context to this conversation, but I think you'll get the gist.

Since posting this on facebook last year, I also found out about a study done by University of Washington that found under their testing that people were more hesitant to shoot if the person was black:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_Hesitant_to_Shoot_Black_Than_White_Suspects

Like everything else, it has to be taken in context. It isn't proof, it's evidence.

Heres the old post of mine:


"I can only speak for myself, not anybody else. But for me, stats are an important part of the issue, and they dont support the notion that the police have a an overwhelming tendency towards something as horrible and tragic as Floyds death. Note, I do think that Floyds case was a clear cut example of police brutality. However the system responded appropriately. The officers were fired and the one responsible for Floyds death is currently in jail with a murder charge. Virtually everyone is unanimous in their support of this.
So why the riots and violence? Peaceful protest is fine, but let's be real here. Peaceful protest isn't drawing the criticism. I've been moved to tears by some of the protests. The silent raised fists in LA. The circle of protesters gathered around a lone policeman, protecting him from the mob. Such powerful, moving imagery. I'm also horrified at the violence displayed. Beating defenseless senior citizens, burning down buildings occupied by families and blocking the police and firemen from intervening. Floyd is the victim of the worst cop a person can be, but so too are many other people victims of violent criminals that are being given a pass by many. Why is this?
Well, I'm told that theres a system in place that's overwhelming in it's systemic racism towards black people in this country, and in this particular case the culprit is the police force. Ok, thats definitely worth a look, right? How do we go about showing this? What evidence supports the position? Well, I would say the statistics of interactions between the police and the public broken down into race would be the best place to start. Based on numbers I've seen in other conversations as well as things I dug up on my own time, the position of systemic racism isn't supported by any objective metric that I've found.



"There are around 60 million encounters of citizens by police per year. Not an exact number since it fluctuates. This is all encounters from traffic stops to hostage situations
Source:
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6406
Also generally speaking, there are about 10 million arrests per those 60 million encounters.
Source:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/.../crim.../topic-pages/persons-arrested
In 2019, out of 60 million encounters, there were 1,004 people shot and killed by police (.0001% of all encounters). 963 (96%) armed, 41 (4%) unarmed. 20 white, 10 black, 6 Hispanic, 4 other, 1 unknown.
This means .0000016% of all police interactions result in an unarmed black man being shot and killed.
And out of 1,004 shootings, 236 (23%) are black.
For the sake of comparison, out of 800,000 officers, 48 were killed with malicious intent.
Source: https://www.fbi.gov/.../fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on...

The system is imperfect, but far from broken. And there is no good evidence for the police force being a racist organization that is overwhelmingly violent to one race over another.
This is not the same thing as arguing that brutality or racism don't exist, or that multiple incidents of such cant be pointed out every year. But arguing that the police force itself lashes out in overwhelmingly racist ways is an argument without much support."
To break it down ever further:
For every 10,000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed
For every 10,000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed
Sources for these stats:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/.../crime-in-the-u.s.../tables/table-43
https://ucr.fbi.gov/.../crime-in-the-u.s.../tables/table-43
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../police-shootings-2017/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../police-shootings-2018/
There was also another study awhile back published by The National Academy of Sciences that had this to say:
"We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in police use of force across all shootings"
Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/32/15877...
To me, none of this paints a picture of the police force itself lashing out violently towards one race in particular.

Now, the counter point might be that shootings alone don't tell the whole story. Case in point, Floyd was killed without a shot fired. I tried finding the stats for people killed while in custody by means other than firearms and didn't come up with anything concrete. If anyone has them I'd love to see them. However, the complete lack of observable bias of police with firearms in their hands is not something to dismiss, nor is it something easily countered with any tangible evidence.
None of this evidence points to a need for rioting and violence. Much less defending the riots and violence as necessary.

If Black Lives matter, why arent people condemning the violent protesters for the 80 people that were shot in Chicago over the weekend, 19 of them dead? They were overwhelmingly black people.
Why isn't anyone speaking for David Dorn, the retired black police officer that was shot and killed outside a pawn shop a couple days ago by looters? Who is speaking for him? Why are people defending the group that killed him?

As far as historical arguments, America has a long, bloody history with racism. Few would deny this. That doesn't mean we can use this history to infer things that aren't supported by evidence. It was only some 50 years ago that the mental health professionals were using electroshock therapy to literally attempt to shock the gay out of people. That's horrendous, and barbaric, and it was literally performed by people that are still alive today. However, I won't blame the current mental health professionals for this archaic practice, nor does anyone else to my knowledge. But it's all to common to put the blood from the sleeves of previous generations onto the hands of the police out in the streets today."
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,238,532
Messages
55,569,004
Members
174,825
Latest member
obrad

Share this page

Back
Top