Elections Newsome Keeps His Governorship-- Results Not Close

Pretty dickish response, TeTe. It's not even "Democrat policy," genius. Lots of NIMBYs in the party. And it's both logically obvious and empirically demonstrated that more housing units = lower housing costs = fewer homeless people.
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that the main reason the homeless numbers on the West Coast in general have little to do with the cost of living and more to do with the fact that states like California, Oregon and Washington actually help encourage the homeless to come here as opposed to staying in red states where they have no incentives to stay (not just because of the shitty weather either). Portland for example allows homeless encampments and even builds small villages of shacks for them to stay. There are way more methadone clinics and services for homeless people out here. I'm not going to argue if it's wrong to do that, but it certainly is a draw for the homeless.

And you'd think if you really want to help the homeless get off the street you would actually build free housing for these people instead of allowing rentals that they can't afford anyway. I know they just did this in LA recently and I'm interested to see if this actually works.

How many homeless will take them up on this free housing?
 
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that the main reason the homeless numbers on the West Coast in general have little to do with the cost of living and more to do with the fact that states like California, Oregon and Washington actually help encourage the homeless to come here as opposed to staying in red states where they have no incentives to stay (not just because of the shitty weather either).

How do you explain the fact that homelessness is highest where housing costs are highest and has nothing to do with any of that other stuff? What's your theory for why the usual rules of markets don't work for housing (and when did you abandon libertarianism?)?

Portland for example allows homeless encampments and even builds small villages of shacks for them to stay. There are way more methadone clinics and services for homeless people out here. I'm not going to argue if it's wrong to do that, but it certainly is a draw for the homeless.

And your theory is that this creates homelessness rather than is done in response to it?

And you'd think if you really want to help the homeless get off the street you would actually build free housing for these people instead of allowing rentals that they can't afford anyway. I know they just did this in LA recently and I'm interested to see if this actually works.

How many homeless will take them up on this free housing?

I'd think if people really wanted to help the homeless, they'd build more housing and bring housing costs down. The parts of the state with high homelessness have generally good economies--some of the best in the world in some cases. It's not an unusual number of people unemployed--just an unusual tendency for unemployment to lead to homelessness because of the very high housing costs.
 
if people want to protest against the health care workers who are busy saviing their lives, then its clear they dont believe in science and the medical industry so hell yeah dont treat them. they dont want to be treated. these plague rats believe in their own alternative science. they have their cheap horse paste, bleach, ultraviolet light bulbs, fish tank cleaner, toxic levels of vitamins, colloidal silver, bromelian, betaline, and Alex Jones' silver toothpaste. i'm sure they'll be fine. if they are running low on beds in the hospital and it comes down to doctors having to pick and choose who gets treated and who lives and who dies, the plague rats arent exactly going to have highest priority.

You've officially been indoctrinated into left wing propaganda.
 
I voted for Faulconer but I didn't expect the recall to be sucessful.

It'll be interesting next year. If the Democrats run a strong enough candidate against him, I'm sure Newsom will be out.

I don't think any Republican can make a serious run next year though, unless someone is hiding in the woodwork that can change the tide that I don't know about. They'd have to be moderate or fairly libertarian to stand a chance.

Newsom is the Democratic Party.

The Republicans ran a Libertarian in Elder. He's Pro-Choice, Pro-Legalization of Marijuana, and more. The guy only went GOP to run for office. He's been a Libertarian for decades. For people to believe he was an extension of Trump just shows how easy it is to manipulate people.

California is lost. It's failed on:
  • Homelessness
  • Jobs
  • Energy Policy
  • Crime
  • CV-19
  • Water Policy
  • Education
  • Bullet Train
  • Congestion

Everything they touch goes to shit.

We just have to admit it and move on. I don't think I will retain a property here when I move. I just think all the push where Sacramento is deciding zoning in local areas makes it a total bust. They are building 2nd homes in backyards throughout the area and forcing the builds of low income housing.. The congestion, crime, and infrastructure is going to be awful.
 
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Newsom is the Democratic Party.

The Republicans ran a Libertarian in Elder. He's Pro-Choice, Pro-Legalization of Marijuana, and more. The guy only went GOP to run for office. He's been a Libertarian for decades. For people to believe he was an extension of Trump just shows how easy it is to manipulate people.

California is lost. It's failed on:
  • Homelessness
  • Jobs
  • Energy Policy
  • Crime
  • CV-19
  • Water Policy
  • Education
  • Bullet Train
  • Congestion

Everything they touch goes to shit.

We just have to admit it and move on. I don't think I will retain a property here when I move. I just think all the push where Sacramento is deciding zoning in local areas makes it a total bust. They are building 2nd homes in backyards throughout the area and forcing the builds of low income housing.. The congestion, crime, and infrastructure is going to be awful.

As I pointed out to you already, Elder is not pro choice. He is explicitly against abortion.

He also wants to abolish Medicare, the minimum wage, and corporate taxes. These ideas are not even popular with Republican voters, they are extreme. He also has no solutions for any of the issues you raised.
 
I was too. I just think that the Democrats won't put up opposition. It's not their way. We will see in a few months. If I'm wrong, I'll do an ode to Te Te.

No party would primary a popular incumbent. It's a silly idea.
 
No party would primary a popular incumbent. It's a silly idea.
Maybe if the republicans were smart they'd run a moderate against him then. Hell, someone who's had a D next to their name before or an independent.
 
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Maybe if the republicans were smart they'd run a moderate against him then. Hell, someone who's had a D next to their name before or an independent.
They won’t though, because all the Jan 6th nut jobs … err I mean the “most engaged” part of Trump’s base will stay home.
 
Maybe if the republicans were smart they'd run a moderate against him then. Hell, someone who's had a D next to their name before or an independent.

The state GOP would never back a moderate.

Kind of curious how you maintain (if you maintain) your views about the housing market in light of what I pointed out (like how homeless rates are strongly correlated with housing costs and not at all with rates of addiction or other mental-health issues).

Also the reverse causation of programs to help the homeless.
 
Newsom is the Democratic Party.

The Republicans ran a Libertarian in Elder. He's Pro-Choice, Pro-Legalization of Marijuana, and more. The guy only went GOP to run for office. He's been a Libertarian for decades. For people to believe he was an extension of Trump just shows how easy it is to manipulate people.

California is lost. It's failed on:
  • Homelessness
  • Jobs
  • Energy Policy
  • Crime
  • CV-19
  • Water Policy
  • Education
  • Bullet Train
  • Congestion

Everything they touch goes to shit.

We just have to admit it and move on. I don't think I will retain a property here when I move. I just think all the push where Sacramento is deciding zoning in local areas makes it a total bust. They are building 2nd homes in backyards throughout the area and forcing the builds of low income housing.. The congestion, crime, and infrastructure is going to be awful.
As was stated before Larry Elder is anti choice when it comes to abortion, abolish Medicare, the minimum wage, and corporate taxes has no workable solutions to any of California's most serious problems and zero previous political experience.

In addition we just got rid of a right wing loud mouth, know it all reality tv host with zero previous political experience as POTUS last year what makes California Republicans think that in a state that Biden won by almost 30 pts less than a year ago is even slightly interested in electing Larry Elder a right wing loud mouth know it all radio host with zero previous political experience as Governor of California?
 
Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and say that the main reason the homeless numbers on the West Coast in general have little to do with the cost of living and more to do with the fact that states like California, Oregon and Washington actually help encourage the homeless to come here as opposed to staying in red states where they have no incentives to stay (not just because of the shitty weather either). Portland for example allows homeless encampments and even builds small villages of shacks for them to stay. There are way more methadone clinics and services for homeless people out here. I'm not going to argue if it's wrong to do that, but it certainly is a draw for the homeless.

And you'd think if you really want to help the homeless get off the street you would actually build free housing for these people instead of allowing rentals that they can't afford anyway. I know they just did this in LA recently and I'm interested to see if this actually works.

How many homeless will take them up on this free housing?

As a native Pacific Northwesterner - and I might be biased here - these Left Coast States are just more attractive in general for a whole host of reasons.

I don't know what the solution is but I feel the best way forward is more new government subsidized housing, increased funding of mental health services, dedicated government institutions focused on homelessness.

If we can spend billions on Afghan refugees, we should be spending more on our homeless.
 
As a native Pacific Northwesterner - and I might be biased here - these Left Coast States are just more attractive in general for a whole host of reasons.

I don't know what the solution is but I feel the best way forward is more new government subsidized housing, increased funding of mental health services, dedicated government institutions focused on homelessness.

If we can spend billions on Afghan refugees, we should be spending more on our homeless.

The way forward is just to fix the massive housing shortage, which predictably drives costs and thus homelessness up. This isn't rocket science. Particularly baffling that a former libertarian can't seem to get it (not you).
 
Imagine if we had a law that only Porsche was allowed to make new cars (and only their current line and production level). We'd see car prices rising dramatically and a lot of people wouldn't have cars. A lot of the carless would be drug addicts or people with mental and physical issues that make it hard for them to make good incomes, but it would be stupid to try to address carlessness with mental health treatments.
 
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Very wrong about homelessness. Just today: Gov. Newsom abolishes single-family zoning in California (mercurynews.com). Huge steps in the right direction there, and he'd done smaller things before signing that. That's the primary reason for my support (posted here that he'd lose my support if he didn't sign SB9 and SB10--I had some confidence he would because he's generally been on the right side of that issue, but he was getting a lot of pressure from Democratic NIMBYs and hadn't made a public statement on it before the signing).
Yeah, sorry I didn't respond in depth before, I was busy af a work today.

Very wrong about homelessness. Just today: Gov. Newsom abolishes single-family zoning in California (mercurynews.com). Huge steps in the right direction there, and he'd done smaller things before signing that. That's the primary reason for my support (posted here that he'd lose my support if he didn't sign SB9 and SB10--I had some confidence he would because he's generally been on the right side of that issue, but he was getting a lot of pressure from Democratic NIMBYs and hadn't made a public statement on it before the signing).

I mean, that is what's going on here. And, again, not true to say that no steps have been taken, but he's a governor, not Storm.
By all means, please post what he's actually done to help fix these issues in the short term instead of just yelling "global warming" and kick the can down the road. It can't be that hard, they've seemed to figure it out in this county, we have a water surplus until 2045.

How do you explain the fact that homelessness is highest where housing costs are highest and has nothing to do with any of that other stuff? What's your theory for why the usual rules of markets don't work for housing (and when did you abandon libertarianism?)?
Abandon libertarianism? lmao, the rules of market won't work except for people who work and have a desire to pay rent, which is the people who already pay rent.

I'm all for people building adus on their property if that that's what they desire, doens't mean it's going to fix homelessness. And let me tell you why it's not going to work... because people in affluent areas are going to have spoken or not so spoken agreement to not build adus on their property. I mean, do you think there's going to be some massive influx of people lining up to do this? Because like you mentioned NIMBYism won't have it.

Again, I don't care if people want to build them or not.. but to think Newsom is going to put a dent in homelessness by doing this is crazy. Like I said, you're better off just building something, a community of small homes, that people don't have to pay for if you are going to get them off the street. What's the going rate for a granny flat these days? In San Diego a one bedroom is going to be at least $1200-$1400. How exactly are homeless people going to pay for that?

The way forward is just to fix the massive housing shortage, which predictably drives costs and thus homelessness up. This isn't rocket science. Particularly baffling that a former libertarian can't seem to get it (not you).
The way forward is to help solve the root of the issues that caused the homelessness in the first place, and guess what, it's isn't because of lack of housing. This quote of yours was a direct response to more reasonable way to do that, in light of your stupid Porsche analogy, and you completely ignored it. Building more $1400 a month (I'm sure much higher in the Bay Area) ADUs isn't going to cut it. Who is going to rent a unit to someone without a job? Baffling that someone like you is too naive to get it.
 
Yeah, sorry I didn't respond in depth before, I was busy af a work today.

It's cool.

By all means, please post what he's actually done to help fix these issues in the short term instead of just yelling "global warming" and kick the can down the road. It can't be that hard, they've seemed to figure it out in this county, we have a water surplus until 2045.

Gotta get more specific on the issues to get more specific answers. Just in April, there was the $500M-plus wildfire package, not to mention budget priorities.

Abandon libertarianism? lmao, the rules of market won't work except for people who work and have a desire to pay rent, which is the people who already pay rent.

That's not really how markets work. I'm saying more supply (with mostly unchanged demand) => lower prices => fewer people who can't afford the product. You don't believe that works? In addition to the logic being undeniable, the evidence is extremely strong, and I'd have thought a libertarian would get it.

I'm all for people building adus on their property if that that's what they desire, doens't mean it's going to fix homelessness. And let me tell you why it's not going to work... because people in affluent areas are going to have spoken or not so spoken agreement to not build adus on their property. I mean, do you think there's going to be some massive influx of people lining up to do this? Because like you mentioned NIMBYism won't have it.

I think you're a little confused. The ADU thing was good, too, but I'm talking about SB9 and SB10, which are larger-scale fixes. Of course they're going to bring homelessness down. We can make a bet on it, but I think you'd be nuts to take it.

The way forward is to help solve the root of the issues that caused the homelessness in the first place, and guess what, it's isn't because of lack of housing. This quote of yours was a direct response to more reasonable way to do that, in light of your stupid Porsche analogy, and you completely ignored it. Building more $1400 a month (I'm sure much higher in the Bay Area) ADUs isn't going to cut it. Who is going to rent a unit to someone without a job? Baffling that someone like you is too naive to get it.

Actually, yes, the root cause of homelessness is a lack of housing. My Porsche analogy was perfect, but if you actively resist market thinking, you're not going to understand it. As I pointed out, look where homelessness is highest, and they all have one thing in common--very high housing costs. Look what happens when housing costs go up or down (homeless rises or falls). There's no correlation between addiction or mental-health issues and homelessness. It's just a dumb deflection that unscrupulous politician make, counting on stupid people's natural aversion to markets.
 
Makes me think I made a terrible mistake not moving to Texas 20 years ago. The writing has been on the wall for a long time.
 
I think you're a little confused. The ADU thing was good, too, but I'm talking about SB9 and SB10, which are larger-scale fixes. Of course they're going to bring homelessness down. We can make a bet on it, but I think you'd be nuts to take it.

Actually, yes, the root cause of homelessness is a lack of housing. My Porsche analogy was perfect, but if you actively resist market thinking, you're not going to understand it. As I pointed out, look where homelessness is highest, and they all have one thing in common--very high housing costs. Look what happens when housing costs go up or down (homeless rises or falls). There's no correlation between addiction or mental-health issues and homelessness. It's just a dumb deflection that unscrupulous politician make, counting on stupid people's natural aversion to markets.
I'm not going argue the root cause of homelessness anymore, clearly we aren't going to agree in this.

But in regards to what was signed, I only knew about the adu and split property part of it since thats all I saw people bitching about and I stand by my statements in regards to that.

But since you said there's more to it, then let's take a look at it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2021/09/16/g...-housing-supply-and-fight-the-housing-crisis/

Today, California officials announced the new California Housing Accelerator – a $1.75 billion component of Governor Newsom’s California Comeback Plan to expedite construction of an estimated 6,500 shovel-ready affordable multi-family units in projects stalled due to constraints on the supply of tax-exempt bonds and low-income housing tax credits.

This sounds great, but how are they going to make the housing affordable? Sure, sounds like tax liability will be reduced which won't necessarily put a huge dent in the cost. But how are unemployed people living on the street going to afford them even in spite of tax credits? How do they determine who qualifies?

This sounds like it will benefit your typical middle class earning family.

The Governor today signed California State Senate President pro Tempore Toni G. Atkins’ SB 9, the California Housing Opportunity and More Efficiency (HOME) Act, which the White House this month commended to increase housing supply. The HOME Act facilitates the process for homeowners to build a duplex or split their current residential lot, expanding housing options for people of all incomes that will create more opportunities for homeowners to add units on their existing properties. It includes provisions to prevent the displacement of existing renters and protect historic districts, fire-prone areas and environmental quality.

This was the only part I was familiar with, which we've discussed already

SB 10 by Senator Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco) creates a voluntary process for local governments to access a streamlined zoning process for new multi-unit housing near transit or in urban infill areas, with up to 10 units per parcel. The legislation simplifies the CEQA requirements for upzoning, giving local leaders another tool to voluntarily increase density and provide affordable rental opportunities to more Californians.

If this works, great. But I'm skeptical considering most municipalities would rather zone area for commercial use because they get more property tax returns on it, which is the downside to Prop 13.

The Governor also signed SB 8 by Senator Nancy Skinner (D-Berkeley), which extends the provisions of the Housing Crisis Act of 2019 through 2030. The Housing Crisis Act of 2019, which was scheduled to expire in 2025, accelerates the approval process for housing projects, curtails local governments’ ability to downzone and limits fee increases on housing applications, among other key accountability provisionsGovernor Newsom also signed AB 1174, by Assemblymember Tim Grayson (D-Concord), an urgency measure that makes changes to the existing streamlined, ministerial approval process for housing development in jurisdictions that have not yet made enough progress towards their allocation of their regional housing needs.

Seems pretty straightforward to me

In sum, it sounds like if some of this works, it could make it more affordable for buyers and renters.

But going from homeless to a buyer is quite the leap. You'd think they'd try to get homeless into rentals first... I mean don't we already have housing vouchers as it is? Unless when they say "multi-family units" there is the assumption they are going to be rentals.

And for the record I'm all for building more properties to make housing more affordable for buyers instead of constantly zoning for rentals which almost always what we see usually.

But I would bet you that even with low income housing being built, you aren't going to put much of a dent in homelessness. The lower class people who work and support their families are going to benefit of course from this, which is good. But I don't think the people who phoned it a long time ago, suffering from addiction and/or have mental health issues are going to be lead to water because of this.
They'll stay on the streets unemployed because that's the life they know. Unless they get the help they need first to be a contributing member of society. Then, maybe they'll be more likely to work and take advantage of low income housing opportunities.
 
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