International Australia to Buy Nuclear Attack Submarine from US; France Furious Over Betrayal

[Anewt]

Hell updating the God damn infrastructure so we stop flushing drinking water down the toilet in one of the driest nations on earth would be more logical to me.....

 

[Ruprecht]

The geography actually would play to our strengths actually, we are on the very few nations in the world that could use our own resources throughout almost the entire process..

Labor costs ? Sure to build the facilities. I would assume the vast majority would be automated.. I highly doubt Taiwan is paying minimum wage grunts..

Fine let's focus on natural power technology then. Once again we have the space and resources to be at the forefront. Fuck paying the US military industry 70billion and fuck just throwing away over 2 n a half billion on a order we requested we now Don't want.

There's far better uses than please help us build these nuclear submarines that the first one will be completed by 2040..... they'll be obsolete by then . Look at all the military hardware our country buys. There's a tonne of money required almost immediately to get them "uptodate ". If they even working.. Happens every time.

Good lord even fucking new mega shipping container ship technology would be far more viable and strategic than 8 nuclear submarines.

Malaysia has the raw materials, it's why the fabs were built there in the first place, and by geography I mean we're in the arse end of nowhere for shipping, whereas Singapore is, quite literally, "the gateway to Asia". Hence the entrepot economy.

Sadly our increase in military spending is absolutely going to be a cornerstone of any reaffirming of our geostrategic relationship with the US in this way. As well as continuing to be on board with everything they do militarily.

Not sure how much of the 2 billion (plus the cost of exiting the agreement) will be wasted, and how much has actually gone towards usable facilities here in Adelaide. I imagine all the training exchanges are a total loss.

 

[Anewt]

Malaysia has the raw materials, it's why the fabs were built there in the first place, and by geography I mean we're in the arse end of nowhere for shipping, whereas Singapore is, quite literally, "the gateway to Asia". Hence the entrepot economy.

Sadly our increase in military spending is absolutely going to be a cornerstone of any reaffirming of our geostrategic relationship with the US in this way. As well as continuing to be on board with everything they do militarily.

Not sure how much of the 2 billion (plus the cost of exiting the agreement) will be wasted, and how much has actually gone towards usable facilities here in Adelaide. I imagine all the training exchanges are a total loss.

I'm off the idea we should be far more self sufficient... the technology is there. We could actually head into the future at the forefront of technology that can help not just us but the world... even if it's just us I don't care.

This pandemic has shown how fragile our economy and imports can be.

You make completely valid points Don't get me wrong. But I'd prefer to see us make strides into the future, not just try to stay treading water.

 

[Horus]

Australia's population is around 6 percent chinese. They are our main trading partner. They own our universities, probably still some of our politicians and much of our debt, not to mention their control of much of our farmland and I don't know how many ports.

Not to mention that due to covid, many western nations are destroying their own economies whilst China watches on as we purchasefrom them.
If we are anything like the US they probably supply nearly 100 percent of our pharmaceuticals. What exactly does our PM define 'defence' as?
Its well known throughout Asia that China owns Australia.
Those subs are pretty expensive for some window dressing. Because if you are not serious about defence that is all it is.

China is playing the long game as usual and will likely stick with taunts and rhetoric until they can almost walk in without firing a shot.

 

[Horus]

Interestingly this came out 2 weeks ago

 

[Ruprecht]

Australia's population is around 6 percent chinese. They are our main trading partner. They own our universities, probably still some of our politicians and much of our debt, not to mention their control of much of our farmland and I don't know how many ports.

Not to mention that due to covid, many western nations are destroying their own economies whilst China watches on as we purchasefrom them.
If we are anything like the US they probably supply nearly 100 percent of our pharmaceuticals. What exactly does our PM define 'defence' as?
Its well known throughout Asia that China owns Australia.
Those subs are pretty expensive for some window dressing. Because if you are not serious about defence that is all it is.

China is playing the long game as usual and will likely stick with taunts and rhetoric until they can almost walk in without firing a shot.

They are far and away our biggest trade partner, own slightly more of our water, but in terms of ownership the US has a lot more say (and that's been the case since at least shortly after AUSFTA). 15 of the top twenty businesses are majority owned by Americans.

 

[Whippy McGee]

genuine question- you are honestly bothered by the US letting Australia break an agreement with France to buy subs from US that will be better for our strategic interests in the region?

No. It's how it was handled. Their is clearly a better way to work with our closest allies, or at least there used to be.

 

[MicroBrew]

It's amusing when their propaganda does unrestrained jingoism. There's bound to be some form of trade sanctions though.

I've been seen pro CCP comments claiming that Australia needs China , because Aus needs a market for their raw materials and China is the biggest.

Sure China is one of the biggest if not the biggest market, but I am skeptical that Australia is dependent on China more so than China is on Australia. India, South East Asia, Europe , North and South America are all markets for Australian ore / raw materials.

 

[Bacco]

On reality the position of everybody in this is understandable

It's simply a case where involved parts different interests were way more important than diplomacy

 

[44nutman]

Nice to finally have a President tough on China.

 

[Bald1]

Nobody puts France in a corner, or back of the bus n shit. This is the country that wanted to remove English from the list of official EU languages after Brexit, so it's not like their egos don't influence their policies. Nevermind their shortsightedness during the Paris Peace Conference. It's tough coming to terms with not being at the head of the pack I suppose.

Regardless, alienating western allies while China is trying to establish itself as a global leader and Turkey, SA and Russia reassessing their partnerships is counterproductive. Beyond that I'm ignorant on the topic.

 

[Ruprecht]

I've been seen pro CCP comments claiming that Australia needs China , because Aus needs a market for their raw materials and China is the biggest.

Sure China is one of the biggest if not the biggest market, but I am skeptical that Australia is dependent on China more so than China is on Australia. India, South East Asia, Europe , North and South America are all markets for Australian ore / raw materials.

It's a funny circle. Chinese consumption is often the driving factor in mineral prices, and hence whether certain mining operations are even profitable to keep open. Australia's economic prosperity from the mid '90s on was largely a product of Chinese consumption and those increasing mineral prices. That's certainly a lot of political power, even when the largest mining company, BHP, is majority American owned.
Of course that all seemed well and good when China was opening up economically, socially and trying to use Singapore as their development model, but the turn around and jingoistic belligerence of Xi Jinping (and Hu Jintao, to a lesser degree) means juggling our geostrategic and trade interests just isn't possible anymore.

 

[ocean size]

What a nonsense reply lol could have just said "I don't give a shit because it's my team".

Who said I don't give a shit? I'm just fascinated by the crocodile tears from people who I'd bet a dollars to cents would have cheered every aspect of this if it was a year ago as success of the America First doctrine.

No. It's how it was handled. Their is clearly a better way to work with our closest allies, or at least there used to be.

What could possibly have changed France being left holding the bag with tanks under construction and losing a $60 billion dollar contract? The way to work better with France would be to not fuck them. I'm not sure letting them down extra easy was going to work.

 

[Fesaine]

Good to see France not being an American lapdog.

 

[MicroBrew]

It's a funny circle. Chinese consumption is often the driving factor in mineral prices, and hence whether certain mining operations are even profitable to keep open. Australia's economic prosperity from the mid '90s on was largely a product of Chinese consumption and those increasing mineral prices. That's certainly a lot of political power, even when the largest mining company, BHP, is majority American owned.
Of course that all seemed well and good when China was opening up economically, socially and trying to use Singapore as their development model, but the turn around and jingoistic belligerence of Xi Jinping (and Hu Jintao, to a lesser degree) means juggling our geostrategic and trade interests just isn't possible anymore.

What's the deal with Jacinda Ardern refusing to allow Australia's future nuclear powered subs in NZ waters? First her administration vacillate / behave wishy-washy in condemning China for its human rights issues and now this. Putting their trade deals ahead of 5 eyes solidarity and human rights.

 

[Ruprecht]

What's the deal with Jacinda Ardern refusing to allow Australia's future nuclear powered subs in NZ waters? First her administration vacillate / behave wishy-washy in condemning China for its human rights issues and now this. Putting their trade deals ahead of 5 eyes solidarity and human rights.

That's always been their stance. It's why they dumped ANZUS back in the Reagan years. Especially since the French bombed the Rainbow Warrior on their shores over nuclear testing, public opinion in NZ is overwhelmingly anti-Nuclear. It's not very popular here either, which is why ScoMo had to go to such lengths to spell out that this didn't mean we'd be getting nuclear weapons or power (if they'd tried to dump that on the public without discussion they'd be ousted).
While NZ is more dependent on China and less confrontational, being anti-nuclear is just upholding their existing legislation.

 

[TUFNewb]

F*****m is a bad word now.

Fascism fries?

 

[Orgasmo]

It does seem like we won't get any significant nuclear infrastructure despite the subs being built here, but they did mention an agreement for technology transfer and cooperation on AI and quantum computing.
At the moment all we've got is pissed off French, pissed off Chinese and a plan to make a plan.

Australia suffers economically from the Dutch Disease. It's making easy money selling coal and iron ore to China. Paradoxically, your greatest trading partner is now your greatest adversary.

 

[Ruprecht]

Australia suffers economically from the Dutch Disease. It's making easy money selling coal and iron ore to China. Paradoxically, your greatest trading partner is now your greatest adversary.

Yeah, the politicians have been on it for the last 3 decades.

"Hey... we should probably diversify our economy."
"Yup, we should definitely do something like that."

We could juggle our US strategic alliance with our Chinese trade interests while the Chinese continued to open up socially and economically, but once the CCP turned back on that and took up jingoistic belligerence it was never going to last.

 

[Orgasmo]

Yeah, the politicians have been on it for the last 3 decades.

"Hey... we should probably diversify our economy."
"Yup, we should definitely do something like that."

We could juggle our US strategic alliance with our Chinese trade interests while the Chinese continued to open up socially and economically, but once the CCP turned back on that and took up jingoistic belligerence it was never going to last.

Well New Zealand managed not to piss off the Chinese while still remaining part of the Five Eyes. I think it's just Scott Morrison's megaphone diplomacy doing Australia a disservice. Thin skinned authoritarian governments are always going to react badly to any public criticism. I didn't think Aussies conducted themselves well in how they handled China.