***Khamzat vs Burns MEGATHREAD***

[mkt]

Chimaev is unorthodox in his striking, to say it nicely but he generates power in those exchanges, something that i dont see colby doing.
He made some improvements recently but he is not that lethal.
If they exchange in the pocket like tonight, i m curious how you see colby winning.
But its only one opinion

I don't know who would win, but so far Colby's only been stopped by one jawbreaking shot from Usman. He's dished out (and taken) hundreds of other shots. I know Khamzat has power, but last night he coiuldn't finish a guy who got KO'd by Dan freakin' Hooker. So let's not pretend that every punch Khamzat throws has prime George Foreman power or something. Like I said, I can see Colby winning an extended brawl (perhaps with some wrestling exchanges as well) by having a better gas tank than Khamzat, who makes a bigger cut at WW. It's one of many possibilities.

 

[Tevfik1907]

His inactivity in round 3, his comments about just wanting to win a title and retire, and the fact that he already nearly quit MMA, plus the hellish weightcut to 170 for him--he will never be a champ at 170 while Usman is there. And I don't think he's anywhere near to having the qualities to beat Adesanya either. He ended up being more like Sean O'Malley than I ever believed, but I'm happy I wasn't on the hype train.

He did show heart after getting dropped and hurt via getting cut.

However, we need to admit he has similar size advantage in 170 lbs, that Jon Jones has in 205 lbs. He is a giant for Welterweights, just like Jones is for Light heavyweights, so I was expecting that his size will help him and not lose any rounds to Burns, the only surprising part was that.

 

[Hezekiah]

He didn’t beat the 2nd ranked welterweight in the entire world impressively enough to be considered elite

Problem is that dumb fanboys have been running around MMA forums for the past couple of months adamantly stating that Chimaev would easily run through Burns in a single round, and that he would beat Usman and Adesanya based on some wins against three stiffs and The Leech.

 

[ThrowDown]

You compared Floyd fighting more champions vs. Khabib, it's not comparable since boxing has different structure than MMA.
Floyd can't be the GOAT, without even being the undisputed P4P No.1 first.

Khabib was undisputed P4P No.1, so he can obviously be the GOAT.

+ he is the only undefeated MMA P4P No.1 champ.

Floyd being undefeated boxing champ is not unique, there are many undefeated boxing champions. While Khabib being undefeated P4P No.1 is unique in MMA.

I am a huge Khabib fan. You don't have to sell me on Khabib.

I boxed amateur, from 1986 to 1990.
I've been following the UFC, since UFC 1, in 1993.
I've trained in BJJ, at the Gracie Academy, in 1993-1996, overlapping at Rickson's Academy in 1994+, ultimately moving Fabio Santos' Academy in 1997.
Despite my ranking "here," in Sherdog, I am no newbie.

You are probably right about punching power, but RDA also has his own striking skills.

I am 100% right concerning punching power.
Never did I say RDA "doesn't have striking skills";
What I said was that RDA is no KO puncher, while Gilbert Burns is.

RDA actually has more submission wins in MMA than Burns has, MMA grappling is different than pure BJJ.

10 submission wins from RDA, includes:
- Kevin Lee
- Neil Magny

8 submission wins from Burns.

Well, considering RDA has 44 total professional fights, having "10 submission wins" isn't really that big a deal. By contrast, Burns only has 25 professional fights, but has 8 submissions.

In case your math is bad, that means, of 44 professional fights, RDA has submitted 23% of his opponents. By contrast, Burns, in 25 professional fights, has submitted 32% of his opponents.

Burns is therefore the better submission fire.

Regarding Knockouts, RDA escorted 5 knockouts in 45 professional fights (11%); meanwhile, Burns has scored 6 knockouts in 25 professional fights (24%). That's more than twice as many KO's, percentage-wise, as RDA

Oh, and Kevin Lee and Neil Magny are peripherals.

If you really evaluate the two fighters, Gilbert Burns is twice as dangerous as RDA.

 

[moreorless87]

He has heart.

It's his brain that's lacking. He showed poor fight iq and his boxing defence was disappointing.

For a guy who based his legacy on how few times he got hit, tonight was a disaster and he'll shorten his career if he has too many more fights like that.

He's honestly better off going to Team Eagle and ditching All Stars so he can hone his top control and submission game.

Swanging and banging is going to get him KO'ed.

Thats really not true though is it? his hype has been mostly about his being a very aggressive fighter and having a highly entertaining match really thats the best way to build your legacy in the UFC and makes it much more likely he'll get a title shot than a dull win would have.

Technically really as you say I think the main issue here was his boxing defence, he showed he is a dangerous aggressive boxer against a quality opponents but defencively he was obviously hittable.

I think really the big issue in this fight for he were his tactics, basically avoiding the ground against Burns, You could argue that may ultimately have been smart I spose given Burns BJJ level although personally I think Chimaev could probably have mixed in some more takedowns, Something more like Fedor/Nog 3 were he tosses burns around but doesnt really enaguage with him.

A big issue though really is that not many others fighters at WW have Burns sub grappling ability, I think Burns being mostly a striker in recent years maybe people forget that. Chimaev fighting Usman could potentially be a very different fight tactic with him much more willing to enguage grappling wise.

Honestly what comes to mind most with Chimaev for me is actually Cain, dangerous brawling ultra aggressive grappler and Burns could be like Werdum for Cain were as Usman he could potentially push him back to the cage and unload more and/or take him down.

 

[warriorfan808]

i don't think he can fix himself before they zero in on his weaknesses. he's in the shark tank now and blood is in the water. this is what happens when people get rushed like this. he's not a jon jones level phenom.

i hear you. I think he can work on some holes, but not all and not so quick. The scariest thing about him was the lack of useful tape on him. I’m certain everyone in the top 10 are breaking down his film and coming up with a strategy. The Colby fight will be awesome.

 

[Ivan Denisovich]

One thing that impressed me was Chimaevs leg kicks. They seemed to be those kind of hard impact, numbing the leg sort of kick. Maybe I was hallucinating, but Burns seemed to be sort of unsteady on his lead leg after a while. It could however have been the effect of the brain scrambling too. But to me the movement i
looked like when the leg is starting to go a little dead. Against future opponents Chimaev should utilize that a lot more.

 

[ThrowDown]

LOL, that wasn't an answer to you, read the quote that I took. It was an answer for Khabib hater D1.


Well, where was that punching power against Dan Hooker? Which is why I said probably.


Which is why I mentioned the names, Kevin Lee and Neil are high levels, who is the best fighter Burns submitted?

I just responded to you simultaneously, look above your own post to review my rebuttal.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

If Undefeated Champ Weidman was also P4P No.1 and as dominant as Khabib, who has most 10-8 rounds and never get dropped, or get cut?

Undefeated Champ Weidman wasn't even P4P No.1, wasn't even P4P No.2, let alone other things. LOL.

So it's not even a close comparison.

Easy to have 10-8s when you're not fighting top competition over 8 years lol. Weidman fought title contenders within 2 years. Khabib was fighting pat Healy lol

 

[Bapho96]

I honestly don't understand the hate. Burns is a beast who almost knocked out Usman, and Chimaev just proved he is elite. There were some early Adesanya fights where he also did not look that impressive, and same with Khabib. I Don't know It he will beat Usman, but he is Top 3 in the division, which is crazy for his short career

 

[kingJohn]

Khamzat stood up, it's not like Burns forced the standup by getting up.

We'll just have to see what happens. I see Khamzat outwrestling both if he chooses to.

He forced the stand up a few times, like when he kicked Khamzat across the cage from his back. Nothing I saw in that fight would lead me to believed he'd outgrapple Usman or Colby.

 

[mmaknight]

I honestly don't understand the hate. Burns is a beast who almost knocked out Usman, and Chimaev just proved he is elite. There were some early Adesanya fights where he also did not look that impressive, and same with Khabib. I Don't know It he will beat Usman, but he is Top 3 in the division, which is crazy for his short career

I don't understand the hype of Khamzat. I mean I do understand his potential now after that fight with Burns. But it was also very informative in a sense that Khamzat currently has no business fighting for a title, barely a reason to fighting Colby and going onto challenge Israel. That's all laughable right now.

Let the man grow and get to those levels that he clearly is needing and currently working on.

I think bum-rushing Khamzat will destroy his cause because that fight with Gilbert didn't tell us or show us he's champ material, yet. But it showed us Khamzat needs work and it kind of took a lot of the mystique out of it. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing fighters turn human. But it was more fun thinking that be could beat Colby which I am convinced he won't now, he'll most certainly lose to Kamaru. And going onto to fight Adesanya, yeah that should be put to rest.

 

[DidYouJustGetHere]

He forced the stand up a few times, like when he kicked Khamzat across the cage from his back. Nothing I saw in that fight would lead me to believed he'd outgrapple Usman or Colby.

That was literally the ONLY time where it could be argued that he forced it lol...But Khamzat was not even in his guard at that point. Like he said himself, he wanted no part of Burns's dangerous guard.

 

[ElLunico]

Let's revisit this fight.. so just rewatched the highlights and once again was amazed at Usman's ridiculous cardiovascular endurance.

This fight was also fought at a blistering pace with both fighters landing solid shots.. yet look at Usman in the 3rd round.. the motherfucker isn't even breathing hard it's insane. Technique still on point, defense still sharp, just kept getting stronger as the fight went on

 

[mjfan23]

Yes mate, if you've never seen the fight you should check it out. Buakaw is a legendary Muay Thai fighter. This fight was in K-1 Kickboxing rules. He fought a Japanese guy who grabbed hold of his leg and kicked his other standing leg, which is illegal in that ruleset. Buakaw then got up and had that angry look on his face like "oh really you wanna play like that" and then he proceeded to annihilate the Japanese fighter with leg kicks and then knees to the body and head. He rag dolled him, knocked him down several times and finished him.

This is the fight:


Then an hour later he humiliated the other Japanese fighter in a masterful performance:


I became a fan after watching him destroy 3 people in the same night in that tournament (he beat John Wayne Parr in decision in the quarter final before the 2 fights mentioned above).

Seen em good sir been a k1 fan for decades

 

[PunchyMcSplodo]

Easy to have 10-8s when you're not fighting top competition over 8 years lol.

Why do you keep repeating this idiocy when Khabib has the most Top 10 wins in LW history save maybe BJ Penn, and LW happens to be the deepest division where it's the most difficult to even crack the Top 10?

 

[mmaknight]

Yeah. That was the pinnacle of Gilbert Burns. That is the best Burns has ever looked and it was in a fight he lost and there is absolutely nothing wrong with losing to Kamaru Usman but it was also very telling.

Kamaru is just levels above.

 

[Unheralded Truth]

How well do you think he will fare against Leon Scott's point fighting?

Kamaru has the better cardio for sure, but Leon always seems to find a way to frustrate his opponent.

 

[Ruthfella]

Khamzat ain't got shit on Kamaru yet.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Burns was spent in that second round. I think he had a massive adrenaline dump fighting a teammate and a friend. Also, Usman is that damn good. Respect on his name.