Law Sex by fraud; should it be rape?

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

Should sex obtained through fraud be considered rape?

It seems consistent that it should be when you consider rape is sex without consent, I don't see how you can have consent if you were deceived.

For certain types of fraud, there are some states that consider it rape, this usually involves fraud with identity rather than anything else.

Such as... if the rapist pretended to be the person's spouse or friend but is not. Other types of sex by deception are usually not consider raped, for example:

1) Person lies and says they are single in order to get sex. Their partner would not have had sex with them if they knew they weren't single.

2) Person lies about their wealth/job status in order to get sex. Their partner would not have had sex with them if they knew they weren't rich/had a good job.

3) Person lies about their gender to get sex. Their partner would not have had sex with them if they knew they weren't of that gender.

4) Person lies about their age (not dealing with minors, but say someone is 45 and lies and says they are 30), and the person would not have sex with them if they knew they were that old.

So on and so forth with all the different ways people can lie to get sex...

The thing is... most of these are legal, but lying to get sex... doesn't seem any better than getting someone drunk to get sex.

Do you agree? Why or why not? Why do you think we haven't made lying to get sex a crime?

 

[brackis1]

*grandpa simpson walking in and out of the brothel gif*

 

[mkess101]

Such as... if the rapist pretended to be the person's spouse .

I mean...I gotta ask. How do you "pretend to be someone's spouse" when you aren't? Like is this some Memento or 50 First Dates type deal where the person has a bizarre amnesia and can't remember who they're married to? I don't want to laugh about a thread with rape as the focal point but ahh....?

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

I mean...I gotta ask. How do you "pretend to be someone's spouse" when you aren't? Like is this some Memento or 50 First Dates type deal where the person has a bizarre amnesia and can't remember who they're married to? I don't want to laugh about a thread with rape as the focal point but ahh....?

Court Frees Rapist, Rules Only Married Women Protected by Law - ABC News (go.com)

A guy snuck through a window once she saw the girls boyfriend leave, room was dark, climbed into bed, and had sex with her. California had to amend the law since the guy was pretending to be a boyfriend instead of a spouse.

There's also a case of a guy sneaking into a basement and pretended to be the girls boyfriend when the lights were off.

 

[SaigeVanZant]

I mean...I gotta ask. How do you "pretend to be someone's spouse" when you aren't? Like is this some Memento or 50 First Dates type deal where the person has a bizarre amnesia and can't remember who they're married to? I don't want to laugh about a thread with rape as the focal point but ahh....?

I've seen movies with the chick is blindfolded thinking the husband in railing her but it's really her stepson

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

I've seen movies with the chick is blindfolded thinking the husband in railing her but it's really her stepson

Things like that have happened, I think that's how California's pretending to be a spouse when you are not law rapes came into effect.

 

[mkess101]

Court Frees Rapist, Rules Only Married Women Protected by Law - ABC News (go.com)

A guy snuck through a window once she saw the girls boyfriend leave, room was dark, climbed into bed, and had sex with her. California had to amend the law since the guy was pretending to be a boyfriend instead of a spouse.

There's also a case of a guy sneaking into a basement and pretended to be the girls boyfriend when the lights were off.

Well...first...I'll just get it out of the way and say that is seriously fucked up.

After that...my first thought would be that she went through the entire process of having sex with the dude and didn't realize it wasn't her man? I know there are people who aren't the most observant but not knowing that it's someone other than your boyfriend going at it with you? Maybe a lot of alcohol involved or...hell if I know.

 

[mkess101]

I've seen movies with the chick is blindfolded thinking the husband in railing her but it's really her stepson

 

[USA!USA!]

And people wonder why the population growth is stopping in this country

Can't even pick up a chick now without worrying about getting sued LOL

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

And people wonder why the population growth is stopping in this country

Can't even pick up a chick now without worrying about getting sued LOL

Uhhhhhh.... I mean do you need to lie to pick up women?

 

[Blayt7hh]

No it’s not rape. You could define it as another crime but rape is worse

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

No it’s not rape. You could define it as another crime but rape is worse

I do agree it does seem worse, but it seems if rape is under a definition of non-consensual sex, sex by fraud/deceit would definitely fall under that category.

Now, I do believe that rape through physical force/violence is worse, I think it's worse than rape by drunkenness/alcohol.

However, I'm not sure that lying to get sex, is worse than having sex with someone who cannot give consent (sleeping/drunk).

Do you consider sex by deceit to be less worse than sex with someone who is too drunk?

 

[Pride23]

Uhhhhhh.... I mean do you need to lie to pick up women?

Is it rape if he does lmao

 

[skold]

I mean...I gotta ask. How do you "pretend to be someone's spouse" when you aren't? Like is this some Memento or 50 First Dates type deal where the person has a bizarre amnesia and can't remember who they're married to? I don't want to laugh about a thread with rape as the focal point but ahh....?

Maybe not spouse, but I've heard of stories where a girl half-passed out at a party in a bedroom would get sexually assaulted by someone pretending to be her boyfriend etc.

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

Is it rape if he does lmao

I mean is it?

If I went into the club tricking women about my gender, age, social status, and other things so they can be tricked into having sex with me, is it rape?

There was a guy who tricked women into having sex with him by convincing them that they had a STD and having sex with him would cure the STD.
Woman Says Ruse Tricked Her Into Sex : 'Wanted to Save Myself a Lot of Pain,' Witness Testifies - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

 

[mkess101]

Maybe not spouse, but I've heard of stories where a girl half-passed out at a party in a bedroom would get sexually assaulted by someone pretending to be her boyfriend etc.

I guess. If a girl is that wasted that she's basically passed out, that part alone would make it rape wouldn't it? Unable to give actual consent? I suppose the dude lying about who he was could be some sort of additional qualifier or something that added to how shitty he was and helped a prosecutor get a conviction...

 

[Sean_wongster_wongmastter]

I guess. If a girl is that wasted that she's basically passed out, that part alone would make it rape wouldn't it? Unable to give actual consent? I suppose the dude lying about who he was could be some sort of additional qualifier or something that added to how shitty he was and helped a prosecutor get a conviction...

Depends on the evidence for the prosecutor I suppose, who knows, maybe the guy was an idiot and told a bunch of people he got away with pretending to be her boyfriend rather than talk about how drunk she was.

 

[skold]

I guess. If a girl is that wasted that she's basically passed out, that part alone would make it rape wouldn't it? Unable to give actual consent? I suppose the dude lying about who he was could be some sort of additional qualifier or something that added to how shitty he was and helped a prosecutor get a conviction...

Well yeah, but a situation could arise where consent is given under a false pretense.

 

[mkess101]

Well yeah, but a situation could arise where consent is given under a false pretense.

True.

Sad this is an actual discussion that needs to be had at all.

 

[Don Quixote]

A person drunk is physically impaired. A person that got lied to still made the choice to have sex consciously without impairment.