Rocky Marciano or Floyd Mayweather Jr. - Who had the better career?

[Hagler]

With your literal take on things it won't compute but.. it kind of is.

It’s perfectly OK to enjoy KOs better as an individual.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

just voted Floyd, and i really dislike him, too.

His win over Canelo, a bigger fighter, when he was already old, is really an exceptional win. Pretty amazing fighter. Total douchebag. Only time I cheered for him was when he fought the even douchier McGregor.

 

[Hagler]

just voted Floyd, and i really dislike him, too.

His win over Canelo, a bigger fighter, when he was already old, is really an exceptional win. Pretty amazing fighter. Total douchebag. Only time I cheered for him was when he fought the even douchier McGregor.

The McGregor bout is indeed the only time I was rooting for Floyd when I watched him fight.

 

[Hagler]

The McGregor bout is indeed the only time I was rooting for Floyd when I watched him fight.

Maybe I’ve rooted for him in the Corrales fight too. First time I have watched him fight live.

 

[JayE]

Marciano had around 10 fights at the elite level over around a 5 year period in a notoriously weak HW era. Mayweather had over 30 fights at the elite level over about a 17 year period. It's not a disrespect to Marciano to say this isn't close.

 

[deucesarewild]

Ezzard Charles was a better fighter and should've gotten the nod making it 1-1. But p4p Charles is above Rocky

Okay, not arguing how the Charles vs Marciano 1 fight was close, but then we can go and poke holes in some of Mayweather's close wins. It becomes conjecture. These "who was better" type debates are tricky.

Charles fought way more, but Rocky beat him more convincingly in the second fight, and was better against many of their similar opponents. Even though I agree that Charles might be a better fighter, he wasn't against Rocky or against some of their common opponents (he got sparked by Jersey Joe's left hook from the hip after slipping inside Charles' jab), and that matters.

 

[deucesarewild]

floyd was also past his prime for those wins though. that’s why that doesn’t hold any weight. floyd had been fighting for over 15 years himself when he beat manny.

Prime is a floating piece of time depending on the fighter's in ring style and outside the ring lifestyle. Lennox Lewis said his style aged like a fine wine after the Tyson fight and in that moment we see the contrasting demands a fighter like Tyson would put on his body for preparation compared to Lewis. Mayweather's very efficient style is the penultimate style for an aging fighter and arguably keeps getting better as their mind gets more experienced. Fighters that need to push their body into the highest gear for camp and for the fight burn out quicker. It's just the way humans are made. If Bernard Hopkins was a pressure fighter he wouldn't have been so impressive in his late 30s and his 40s.

 

[JayE]

Okay, not arguing how the Charles vs Marciano 1 fight was close, but then we can go and poke holes in some of Mayweather's close wins. It becomes conjecture. These "who was better" type debates are tricky.

Charles fought way more, but Rocky beat him more convincingly in the second fight, and was better against many of their similar opponents. Even though I agree that Charles might be a better fighter, he wasn't against Rocky or against some of their common opponents (he got sparked by Jersey Joe's left hook from the hip after slipping inside Charles' jab), and that matters.

Charles is pretty much unanimously considered the greatest LHW of all time (he started as a MW). He's clearly a greater fighter than Marciano.

 

[deucesarewild]

Charles is pretty much unanimously considered the greatest LHW of all time (he started as a MW). He's clearly a greater fighter than Marciano.

Yes. LHW. He should be in everyone's top 5. He lost to Marciano at HW. At HW he was not better than Marciano. He lost to him twice.

 

[JayE]

Yes. LHW. He should be in everyone's top 5. He lost to Marciano at HW. At HW he was not better than Marciano. He lost to him twice.

You were responding to someone claiming that Charles was greater p4p than Marciano. I was stating that he's definitely a greater fighter than Marciano.

 

[deucesarewild]

You were responding to someone claiming that Charles was greater p4p than Marciano. I was stating that he's definitely a greater fighter than Marciano.

To clarify, I wasn't making my comment about p4p. If I used p4p anywhere, that was my mistake and the confusion would be my fault, but I am saying HW and that is true.

 

[deucesarewild]

That’s true. So is the fact that boxing wasn’t as global in Marciano’s days, and WW2 had narrowed the talent pool - even if boxing was very popular.

Not as many global names, but infinitely more American fighters back then. A staggering number. Also, a lot of non-American talent doesn't get equal opportunity today, especially in terms of access and acceptance in the biggest money market for the sport which is still somehow the U.S.A. much of the talent stays where it was locally developed and many of the belts can make a champ hide from other champs.

I won't say that one era had more or less than the other or argue, I was just trying to offer some more information on the subject. There's just so much to consider in a thread like this.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

i know weightcutting was different then, but surely those LHWs were not much different in size coming in at heavyweight. As in, i dont imagine they lifted a bunch of weights to weigh 185, but rather that was simply their walkaround weight in the first place, and probably not far off what they weighed in ring at 175.

I mean, i dont know, but 10lbs is really not much to cut, even when cutting wasnt such a thing as it is now.

well, walkaround weight and fighting shape are obviously two different things. i won't pretend 10-15 pounds is a big deal for everyone either. but just look at the effect going down one division had on someone like chad dawson. at 168, ward slapped him all around the ring. it's only a 7 pound difference but dawson couldn't handle the speed and draining himself altered his punch resistance. marciano could take a good punch at 185-190 pounds. might not be the case at 175.

i just don't like that marciano is heralded as some tiny underdog HW when the best fighters he beat were the same size as him or smaller.

 

[Hagler]

Not as many global names, but infinitely more American fighters back then. A staggering number.

Yeah, that’s what makes Marciano’s time specific : the US boxing talent pool was usually very deep, but WW2’s deaths and injuries (on top of the years guys in their prime spent away from boxing) likely narrowed it significantly.

Comparing eras is complex as hell.

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

well, walkaround weight and fighting shape are obviously two different things. i won't pretend 10-15 pounds is a big deal for everyone either. but just look at the effect going down one division had on someone like chad dawson. at 168, ward slapped him all around the ring. it's only a 7 pound difference but dawson couldn't handle the speed and draining himself altered his punch resistance. marciano could take a good punch at 185-190 pounds. might not be the case at 175.

i just don't like that marciano is heralded as some tiny underdog HW when the best fighters he beat were the same size as him or smaller.

well, he didnt beat any good giants, thats for sure. i think the most impressive thing he beat physically were his trex arms. Thats tough in boxing, but others have managed it, too.
Was Dawson already cutting hard to 175, and further cutting to 168?
Im all for openweight anyways. I like fighters at their most healthy, but as a 175lb guy, i know what its like sparring heavyweights. Doesnt work out well!

 

[Absolut]

Pbf. But being the only “and 0” HW champ is pretty cool.

 

[deucesarewild]

Yeah, that’s what makes Marciano’s time specific : the US boxing talent pool was usually very deep, but WW2’s deaths and injuries (on top of the years guys in their prime spent away from boxing) likely narrowed it significantly.

Comparing eras is complex as hell.

There were so many kids that boxed, and the war kind of fostered boxing in its ranks. While casualties were high in WW2, thr Americans were luckier than most countries, especially given the population they applied to the war effort. You referenced the war but it was really the changing middle after the war the made boxing die off in the U.S.A (at least as far as Whites, specifically all their underprivileged immigrant populations that boxed--Irish, Jews, Italian, etc.). After WW2 the country really gentrified (except for blacks, they really did not see the expansion of the middle class include them until much later, and still, as we see today, it's faaaar from the equality we all want to see). The new, big middle class left a lot of their old habits behind. Marciano was born before the war, so I am talking about the drop off happening from participation in boxing after the war. Rocky was really a part of that last mass of Americans still boxing.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Let's put it this way, at Welterweight in recent years, we've had what seemed like a stacked 147 again. Previously the top of the pile had been Thurman, Spence, and Crawford. Manny Pacquiao yeeeaaaaars removed from his prime just knocked off Thurman, which leads me to believe he beats Crawfords ass too at this point.

And that's a guy who Floyd made look totally ordinary.

Wow, statistically very possible Floyd would have a really good run if he came back today. Actually I think he could unify at 147 if he wanted.

That's the power of a truly solid resume, and if you are going by resume Floyd's has too much depth to be beat here.

 

[ExitLUPin]

Floyd is ahead

But Packey McFarland is considerably greater than either and is the GOAT undefeated boxer by a wide margin

 

[burningspear]

Anyone with an unbeaten record took some short cuts imo