Alijamain Sterling is right re: BJJ

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

If you need to stroke your online ego with e-callouts, you're not that good, so not going to waste my time. Youre a bjj purple belt nerd with 17k+ posts who probably cant even wrestle, has a crap top game, and butt scoots. Probably 10th Planet im guessing. Anyone can medal in a tournament against subpar competition, congrats. Everyone else in here calling you out probably has medals too, including me. But we don't need to e-flex to prove a point.

I was doing bjj in the military before you could even legally join. You have a ton of free time to shitpost and complain, so you sound like Air Force, so im not surprised. The difference is, I don't willingly get into e-fights and butthurt online when people online point out how I'm wrong about another grown man butt scooting.

You're so mad that it's hilarious.

I don't need to stroke my ego lol. I know I'm good because of the work I put in, the result I get in comp, and the people I train with. I've posted all my information on here before. I almost exclusively do IBJJF, ADCC, AGF, and charity events like Tap Cancer Out. I medal consistently.

I'm a checkmat brown belt. Wrestled and did sambo years before doing bjj. Been doing bjj for about 12 years. I primarily work a takedown heavy game with a focus on throws and body locks.

I joined the Marine Corps a couple years ago (joined late in life) and haven't been on sherdog much at all in the past couple years because of it. I'm enjoying my leave right now and training for my next string of comps.

You're reaching hard to discredit me because nothing I said was wrong. I'm respectful with the majority of people on here in the rare times when I post these days and most people in this thread agreed or had common ground with me. We had good conversation about it because they're actually knowledgeable and practice the sport.

I'm mean to you because I don't like liars. You clearly have very limited bjj experience. You have not competed because you don't even know the basics of competed rulesets, and the arguments you made were absolutely braindead. I was respectful in my first reply but I can't take you seriously because all the claims about your experience were clearly embellished. I'm not gonna treat you with respect if you gonna sit here and spout nonsense.

And YOU responded to me initially with a giant post ranting about butt scooting, how terrible sport bjj is, how all other grappling arts make it look unrealistic, etc afterbI had left this thread alone for days.

You're projecting kiddo

 

[TheGreenMachine]

You're so mad that it's hilarious.

I don't need to stroke my ego lol. I know I'm good because of the work I put in, the result I get in comp, and the people I train with. I've posted all my information on here before. I almost exclusively do IBJJF, ADCC, AGF, and charity events like Tap Cancer Out. I medal consistently.

I'm a checkmat brown belt. Wrestled and did sambo years before doing bjj. Been doing bjj for about 12 years. I primarily work a takedown heavy game with a focus on throws and body locks.

I joined the Marine Corps a couple years ago (joined late in life) and haven't been on sherdog much at all in the past couple years because of it. I'm enjoying my leave right now and training for my next string of comps.

You're reaching hard to discredit me because nothing I said was wrong. I'm respectful with the majority of people on here in the rare times when I post these days and most people in this thread agreed or had common ground with me. We had good conversation about it because they're actually knowledgeable and practice the sport.

I'm mean to you because I don't like liars. You clearly have very limited bjj experience. You have not competed because you don't even know the basics of competed rulesets, and the arguments you made were absolutely braindead. I was respectful in my first reply but I can't take you seriously because all the claims about your experience were clearly embellished. I'm not gonna treat you with respect if you gonna sit here and spout nonsense.

And YOU responded to me initially with a giant post ranting about butt scooting, how terrible sport bjj is, how all other grappling arts make it look unrealistic, etc afterbI had left this thread alone for days.

You're projecting kiddo

TLDR. Nothing I said was ever ranting, it was calling out the lunacy of butt scooting. And it's fine to say I'm projecting, but you're the only one on here writing essays cus youre butt hurt when people call butt scooting what it is. And you can say all you want, but you're the only one getting upset on an internet forum with your long essays.

What's funny is that if what you're saying is actually true about your background, we'd have similar skillset and belt ranking in bjj, but yea...you have 17k+ plus posts on Sherdog and get mad when a bunch of people discuss the holes in bjj, so if anyone isn't to believe, its you. Straight up boot POG behavior.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

TLDR.

Lol only way you know hot to react when you've been proven wrong. Sad.

you're the only one on here writing essays cus youre butt hurt when people call butt scooting what it is. .

Lol you quoted originally and then multiple times after that because you can't pass guard. You're the only one upset here. You've been quoting me with insults non-stop because I called out your bullshit lol. You're projecting so hard.

What's funny is that if what you're saying is actually true about your background, we'd have similar skillset and belt ranking in bjj, but yea...you have 17k+ plus posts on Sherdog and get mad when a bunch of people discuss the holes in bjj, so if anyone isn't to believe, its you. Straight up boot POG behavior.

Lol we don't have similar backgrounds because you don't do bjj and you don't compete. I've been competing for in grappling for most of my life. We are not the same.

And lol at unironically saying "POG boot ". I bet you burned most of your paychecks on smokes and strip clubs as an E-1. Grow up kid

I've posted my medals on here multiple times. Facts don't care about your feelings cry more. Lmk if you ever overcome your fear of guard.

Peace.

 

[Coconutwater]

This is grappling. There are no KOs in grappling. That is such a dumb argument because even by your logic, that still requires you to enter the fucking guard. Not run away for 10 minutes, which "symbolically" reflects poorly on martial arts. You can't fight with your back to your opponent and you can't fight from 10 feet away.

Most fights in real life are against clueless dumbasses. Most people who know how to fight don't go around randomly picking fights over dumb shit. Ive been in fights where I was the bottom and the top guy and was fine. And once again, does not apply to this scenario as this is not a street fight.

Aljo signed up for a sub only bjj fight and spent the whole time avoiding his opponent. Yall are glorifying refusing to fight. At least the butt scooter actually attacked a fucking armbar. Learn how to pass fucking guard. It shouldn't be this complicated

I don’t believe anyone should enter anybody’s guard unless they want, but expecting someone to do anything in a martial art is crazy. Yes, it’s a sport, but the train of thought reminds me of Royler Gracie asking fighters to enter his guard instead of forcing them. Kinda like asking someone to stay still so you can land a punch. Guard by its nature, leaves you exposed, your groin, heart, face/eyes, it is, and should be, a last resort, which is how Japanese looked at it. It was never supposed to be a long, drawn out, grappling match, as none existed in warfare. But that’s just my own view. Nobody needs to agree, obviously.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I don’t believe anyone should enter anybody’s guard unless they want, but expecting someone to do anything in a martial art is crazy. Yes, it’s a sport, but the train of thought reminds me of Royler Gracie asking fighters to enter his guard instead of forcing them. Kinda like asking someone to stay still so you can land a punch. Guard by its nature, leaves you exposed, your groin, heart, face/eyes, it is, and should be, a last resort, which is how Japanese looked at it. It was never supposed to be a long, drawn out, grappling match, as none existed in warfare. But that’s just my own view. Nobody needs to agree, obviously.

I think the mindset of "instead of doing any bjj I'm going to run for 10+ minutes " is just crazy. Like why sign up to fight. It's like doing mma and not wanting to get punched. It's just dumb. I think it's even dumber than butt scooting personally (which is dumb on a base line).

Guard is ideally for quick attacks and transitions for sure HOWEVER with proper limb isolation, grip management and off balancing you can safely use guard even with strikes in play. We see it done in mma. Guys like Olivera even effectively use open guards. It's dedicated a more risky play but completely viable 1 vs 1.

All of that is still completely irrelevant in a bjj context tho. Sub only rules are dog shit and refs rarely if ever step in to push action. I dont understand why it has so much popularity in the community. You can't run or sit to guard in literally any point based tournaments.

 

[TheGreenMachine]

Lol only way you know hot to react when you've been proven wrong. Sad.


Lol you quoted originally and then multiple times after that because you can't pass guard. You're the only one upset here. You've been quoting me with insults non-stop because I called out your bullshit lol. You're projecting so hard.


Lol we don't have similar backgrounds because you don't do bjj and you don't compete. I've been competing for in grappling for most of my life. We are not the same.

And lol at unironically saying "POG boot ". I bet you burned most of your paychecks on smokes and strip clubs as an E-1. Grow up kid

I've posted my medals on here multiple times. Facts don't care about your feelings cry more. Lmk if you ever overcome your fear of guard.

Peace.

Go clean your room boot. When you get a campaign medal or deployment, let me know. You sound like a typical MCMAP Marine who thinks they can actually grapple cus they grapple some scrubs. And lol, keep telling yourself others in here don't train if it makes you feel better. We just aren't going to put out personal info to win an e-fight against a nobody.

 

[TheGreenMachine]

I don’t believe anyone should enter anybody’s guard unless they want, but expecting someone to do anything in a martial art is crazy. Yes, it’s a sport, but the train of thought reminds me of Royler Gracie asking fighters to enter his guard instead of forcing them. Kinda like asking someone to stay still so you can land a punch. Guard by its nature, leaves you exposed, your groin, heart, face/eyes, it is, and should be, a last resort, which is how Japanese looked at it. It was never supposed to be a long, drawn out, grappling match, as none existed in warfare. But that’s just my own view. Nobody needs to agree, obviously.

You're completely right, but there's no point arguing with him and there's no rhyme or reason to his logic. The point of jiu jitsu is to use the path of least resistance to get the submission. Even the best top players dont willingly go into a guard if they can help it, but the current ruleset almost forces them to instead of disengaging or backing up. Letting the person who drops to their back dictate the fight based on ruleset is the equivalent of a handicap in a pickup basketball game, or like you said, asking your opponent if you could get the first punch and then penalizing them if they decide to back up and say no. If the ruleset was balanced, they would be forced to to have to wrestle and engage instead of butt scooting.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Go clean your room boot. When you get a campaign medal or deployment, let me know. You sound like a typical MCMAP Marine who thinks they can actually grapple cus they grapple some scrubs. And lol, keep telling yourself others in here don't train if it makes you feel better. We just aren't going to put out personal info to win an e-fight against a nobody.

Dog you are so mad. You keep coming back angrier every time. It's sad. You're obsessive lol. Take your L and move on kid. It's a terrible look for you.

I'm living life happily, training with my wife and friends(got a lot of marines to start trainingby showing them MCMAP is dog shit lol). If you're getting this upset over an internet argument you need help buddy. I hope you can move on one day.

Peace

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

You're completely right, but there's no point arguing with him and there's no rhyme or reason to his logic. The point of jiu jitsu is to use the path of least resistance to get the submission. Even the best top players dont willingly go into a guard if they can help it, but the current ruleset almost forces them to instead of disengaging or backing up. Letting the person who drops to their back dictate the fight based on ruleset is the equivalent of a handicap in a pickup basketball game, or like you said, asking your opponent if you could get the first punch and then penalizing them if they decide to back up and say no. If the ruleset was balanced, they would be forced to to have to wrestle and engage instead of butt scooting.

So butt hurt that you're complaining about me to other people. That's actually sad lol.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I got in a bar scuffle once when, due to the cowboy boots I was wearing, my foot slipped and I started to go on my ass. I was wearing a dope ass pinstripe suit, and didn't want it touching the floor, so I based out with my free hand, pulled my slippery leg back under me, and swept that dummy so quick right into knee on belly that he never had a clue what happened.

Nothing ever hit the floor but the bottom of my boots and the palm of my right hand. This guy was young and in shape too. Street fights against muggles when you're used to going against killers every day are incredibly easy.

I didn't say this in the first reply, but we should normalize calling people who don't train muggles. That shit made me laugh way too hard

 

[Quebec Nick]

I don’t believe anyone should enter anybody’s guard unless they want, but expecting someone to do anything in a martial art is crazy. Yes, it’s a sport, but the train of thought reminds me of Royler Gracie asking fighters to enter his guard instead of forcing them. Kinda like asking someone to stay still so you can land a punch. Guard by its nature, leaves you exposed, your groin, heart, face/eyes, it is, and should be, a last resort, which is how Japanese looked at it. It was never supposed to be a long, drawn out, grappling match, as none existed in warfare. But that’s just my own view. Nobody needs to agree, obviously.

It's really tough in no gi to keep someone down when on the bottom and yes it's all about using the rules to your advantage to bootscoot and make the other guy take penalties for not engaging

But the right path on top should be to yes disengage (getting rid of hooks and grips) but re-engaging instantly with an angle to attack or counter attack and the whole point is to get to a dominant position

On the bushido / real fighting point of view I don't see the point of wanting the guy to get back up. No matter how he got his ass on the ground the whole point should be to make sure he doesn't stand back up and to use that opportunity to get side control, mount or the back.

Even in MMA, it's kind of weird when someone get a takedown from a slip, a weird scramble or even a knockdown and they don't follow up to finish. They just wait for the ref to make him stand up. It might be a trap but you should be confident enough in your ground game to follow through that opening.

If someone is on the ground you should be able to make him pay for it

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

It's really tough in no gi to keep someone down when on the bottom and yes it's all about using the rules to your advantage to bootscoot and make the other guy take penalties for not engaging

But the right path on top should be to yes disengage (getting rid of hooks and grips) but re-engaging instantly with an angle to attack or counter attack and the whole point is to get to a dominant position

On the bushido / real fighting point of view I don't see the point of wanting the guy to get back up. No matter how he got his ass on the ground the whole point should be to make sure he doesn't stand back up and to use that opportunity to get side control, mount or the back.

Even in MMA, it's kind of weird when someone get a takedown from a slip, a weird scramble or even a knockdown and they don't follow up to finish. They just wait for the ref to make him stand up. It might be a trap but you should be confident enough in your ground game to follow through that opening.

If someone is on the ground you should be able to make him pay for it

This is what I've been saying the whole time. At some point you have to get in there and put in work.

Don't let them build a guard, re enter on your terms, pass, attack, submit. That should be the mentality of every top player vs a guard player.

The mentality can't be "I'm picking up my toys and not playing anymore". You wanna play the butt scoot game? Bet, I'm gonna make you regret it.

 

[ChickenBrother]

It's really tough in no gi to keep someone down when on the bottom and yes it's all about using the rules to your advantage to bootscoot and make the other guy take penalties for not engaging

But the right path on top should be to yes disengage (getting rid of hooks and grips) but re-engaging instantly with an angle to attack or counter attack and the whole point is to get to a dominant position

On the bushido / real fighting point of view I don't see the point of wanting the guy to get back up. No matter how he got his ass on the ground the whole point should be to make sure he doesn't stand back up and to use that opportunity to get side control, mount or the back.

Even in MMA, it's kind of weird when someone get a takedown from a slip, a weird scramble or even a knockdown and they don't follow up to finish. They just wait for the ref to make him stand up. It might be a trap but you should be confident enough in your ground game to follow through that opening.

If someone is on the ground you should be able to make him pay for it

This is what I've been saying the whole time. At some point you have to get in there and put in work.

Don't let them build a guard, re enter on your terms, pass, attack, submit. That should be the mentality of every top player vs a guard player.

The mentality can't be "I'm picking up my toys and not playing anymore". You wanna play the butt scoot game? Bet, I'm gonna make you regret it.

TBF while many agree with his sentiment, I don't think anyone ITT is saying Aljo's actions IN THIS MATCH were anything but bitchmade, considering he agreed to sub only rules. Now Dantzler was also a bitch for butt flopping but that's allowed in sub only and if he was butt scooting forward like a midget land shark inviting Sterling to come into his guard and meet his doom, that's more "offensive" than backing away. And considering he notched a close sub, Dantzler was the rightful winner and also won the "slightly less bitchmade" award on criteria. But it was a terrible look for both men and Dantzler drew first bitch by flopping first.

Re. martial context for butt scooting, let's call that what it is. It's one combatant conceding a TD position, which is nothing if not a purely passive action IF DONE WITHOUT ANY GRIPS OR CONTROL. This is not allowed under "standard" BJJ rules and that is a good thing. It's one guy being allowed to dictate where the fight takes place by taking a passive action which is some bullshit.

And let's also be real and acknowledge that butt flopping (again with no grips or control) is a terrible fucking gameplan for a real fight. It only makes sense in a sport grappling context because it forces top guy to pit his arms and upper body against your legs which is his only option under grappling rules. In a real fight, soccer kicks, stomps, etc. would be his friend. And unified MMA rules don't allow them either creating the same artificial advantage for bottom guy (who can upkick while top guy isn't allowed to return the favor) - but even there we rarely if ever see guys butt flop or even pull guard because strikes are too much of an equalizer. And if top guy has a weapon, butt flopper is double fucked.

But to be clear, I'm in support of guard pulling with grips if it's done with offensive intent to sweep or submit - which good guard pullers do. But IMHO it should still be penalized due to giving up position, if TDs are also scored. In post #45 above, I included the official transcript of the IBJJF rules-making conference (should be read in Renato Laranja accent), which explains the roots of this discrepancy.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

TBF while many agree with his sentiment, I don't think anyone ITT is saying Aljo's actions IN THIS MATCH were anything but bitchmade, considering he agreed to sub only rules. Now Dantzler was also a bitch for butt flopping but that's allowed in sub only and if he was butt scooting forward like a midget land shark inviting Sterling to come into his guard and meet his doom, that's more "offensive" than backing away. And considering he notched a close sub, Dantzler was the rightful winner and also won the "slightly less bitchmade" award on criteria. But it was a terrible look for both men and Dantzler drew first bitch by flopping first.

Re. martial context for butt scooting, let's call that what it is. It's one combatant conceding a TD position, which is nothing if not a purely passive action IF DONE WITHOUT ANY GRIPS OR CONTROL. This is not allowed under "standard" BJJ rules and that is a good thing. It's one guy being allowed to dictate where the fight takes place by taking a passive action which is some bullshit.

And let's also be real and acknowledge that butt flopping (again with no grips or control) is a terrible fucking gameplan for a real fight. It only makes sense in a sport grappling context because it forces top guy to pit his arms and upper body against your legs which is his only option under grappling rules. In a real fight, soccer kicks, stomps, etc. would be his friend. And unified MMA rules don't allow them either creating the same artificial advantage for bottom guy (who can upkick while top guy isn't allowed to return the favor) - but even there we rarely if ever see guys butt flop or even pull guard because strikes are too much of an equalizer. And if top guy has a weapon, butt flopper is double fucked.

But to be clear, I'm in support of guard pulling with grips if it's done with offensive intent to sweep or submit - which good guard pullers do. But IMHO it should still be penalized due to giving up position, if TDs are also scored. In post #45 above, I included the official transcript of the IBJJF rules making conference (should be read in Renato Laranja accent), which explains the roots of this discrepancy.

Yup agree 100%!

My only 2 issues with anything in this thread (not in your posts) was that Aljo reaction was correct and more should follow suit (which a few have claimed and even went as far as to say he wasn't stalling) and that this is standard across all competive bjj (which we know it's not).

Sub only rules allow for a lot of goofy shit and reward the worst qualities of bjj. There is no incentive to play good positional bjj or engage in standing grappling. There is also little to nothing stopping stalling. Sub only rules need a MASSIVE overhaul. Or people just need to do point based tournaments which are just so much better.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Yup agree 100%!

My only 2 issues with anything in this thread (not in your posts) was that Aljo reaction was correct and more should follow suit (which a few have claimed and even went as far as to say he wasn't stalling) and that this is standard across all competive bjj (which we know it's not).

Sub only rules allow for a lot of goofy shit and reward the worst qualities of bjj. There is no incentive to play good positional bjj or engage in standing grappling. There is also little to nothing stopping stalling. Sub only rules need a MASSIVE overhaul. Or people just need to do point based tournaments which are just so much better.

Sub only can get really weird

Good human judging is maybe the only answer

Real BJJ guys can see and know who was winning the exchange, who was attacking and who was defending, no matter if they were up or down.

I wouldn't be stalling if I know that the judges will never give you the win for stalling and only defending

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Sub only can get really weird

Good human judging is maybe the only answer

Real BJJ guys can see and know who was winning the exchange, who was attacking and who was defending, no matter if they were up or down.

I wouldn't be stalling if I know that the judges will never give you the win for stalling and only defending

Facts!

I've been on both sides of refs decisions and it always boils down to who was doing more. I think better judging and active reffing are the only solutions to those formats. It gets tricky really fast tho. I've reffed and it is either very easy or super complicatedwitg no middle ground. You definitely need educated individuals running it

 

[TheMaster]

This is grappling. There are no KOs in grappling.

Really? Ever see a heavy throw or suplex in Judo or wrestling result in a knockout or winding someone? It can happen, and that's even with the sporting mats we use.
Imagine you get thrown onto your head outside.
It's why BJJ, especially sport BJJ is still the least realistic and useful of the major grappling styles for a self defence purpose and really is a supplementary style. Because it neglects the major part of grappling, getting the throw or takedown and getting top position, or controlling the opponents body from standing.
BJJ talks about position before submission but ironically lacks the ability to get the most important position for their purposes, taking the opponent down. Its become almost a parody of itself with this butt scooting nonsense.

 

[Quebec Nick]

Facts!

I've been on both sides of refs decisions and it always boils down to who was doing more. I think better judging and active reffing are the only solutions to those formats. It gets tricky really fast tho. I've reffed and it is either very easy or super complicatedwitg no middle ground. You definitely need educated individuals running it

That's for sure educated people is the way for sub only

Maybe having draws for close matches with instant overtime could do the trick. And then a final decision based on that overtime

For real, the level is crazy and in a lot of cases it's way to tough to know who is clearly winning.

But having the grapplers know that, yes it's sub only, but we don't have all day and if you're not working, on the bottom or on top or standing, you will lose the match

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Really? Ever see a heavy throw or suplex in Judo or wrestling result in a knockout or winding someone? It can happen, and that's even with the sporting mats we use.
Imagine you get thrown onto your head outside.
It's why BJJ, especially sport BJJ is still the least realistic and useful of the major grappling styles for a self defence purpose and really is a supplementary style. Because it neglects the major part of grappling, getting the throw or takedown and getting top position, or controlling the opponents body from standing.
BJJ talks about position before submission but ironically lacks the ability to get the most important position for their purposes, taking the opponent down. Its become almost a parody of itself with this butt scooting nonsense.

KOs by throw are extraordinarily rare even in judo. Many tournaments allow guard slams and it is still very rare to see KOs. I throw people A LOT and haven't knocked anyone out yet. I've been thrown on tile, and dirt/roots. Not fun but didn't get knocked out. Fucked up by back something fierce tho. Never wanna do that shit again.

Bjj is incredibly realistic and useful for self defense. Bjj commonly implements wrestling and judo takedowns. You're operations on false narrative. Almost every gym trains takedowns of some kind. The lack of TDs in bjj is a complete myth.

Takedowns are not a position. They are a means of acquiring a position. Just like guard pulling is. It's a method to bring the fight to the area you want. And once again, takedowns are more common in bjj than guard pulling these days. You're forming opinions based off of clips of sub only matches instead of the more common point based format.

Guard pulling is dying

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

That's for sure educated people is the way for sub only

Maybe having draws for close matches with instant overtime could do the trick. And then a final decision based on that overtime

For real, the level is crazy and in a lot of cases it's way to tough to know who is clearly winning.

But having the grapplers know that, yes it's sub only, but we don't have all day and if you're not working, on the bottom or on top or standing, you will lose the match

Agreed. I like the idea of overtime but I feel like too many people play conservatively with the idea of getting a faster escape or sub in OT. Still better than what we have