Bellator 231 Mir vs Nelson II

Mir vs Nelson (and MacDonald vs Lima) media day face-offs:

 
Hellowhosthat said:
They're both completely shot. I'd favour Roy, but I don't trust either of them.
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Nelson nearly beat Mitrione in a come from behind attempt. He was owned by Sergei, no question. He went to a decision with "late-career" CroCop. He still has some chin left.

Mir is completely washed.

Can anyone name a confirmed, no-question, washed fighter that pulled out a win? I can't think of any myself.
 
Soccer Steve said:
Nelson nearly beat Mitrione in a come from behind attempt. He was owned by Sergei, no question. He went to a decision with "late-career" CroCop. He still has some chin left.

Mir is completely washed.

Can anyone name a confirmed, no-question, washed fighter that pulled out a win? I can't think of any myself.
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Manhoef (does he qualify here?) seems to keep winning at times despite being washed for years.

The difference is he still has speed + power. Mir is slow as a wet weak and Roy's chin can withstand Mir's power...
 
Naught2Sixty said:
Diego Sanchez?
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Ahh, interesting. Maybe, just maybe.
I mean moreso guys that when the fight is done you're left feeling like "ugggh whyyyy?". I didn't quite feel like that after the Chiesa fight. Chuck, for instance, was absolutely that.
 
Soccer Steve said:
Ahh, interesting. Maybe, just maybe.
I mean moreso guys that when the fight is done you're left feeling like "ugggh whyyyy?". I didn't quite feel like that after the Chiesa fight. Chuck, for instance, was absolutely that.
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I was thinking more after the Ragin' Al and Matt Brown fights.
 
I was thinking maybe Tito in Bellator but Mir is more washed than him.
 
Mir vs. Nelson 2 is a fascinating match-up of two men whom Time has robbed of most of their fighting prowess.

On the one hand, you have Nelson, who, courtesy of severe brain trauma, has lost his reactions and even a good deal of his coordination (not fully extending his straight punches, not getting enough rotation into his hooks, being off-balance), making his striking utterly harmless and forcing him to cover up, absorbing punches before he can throw an overhand right (his only weapon left) or clinch/shoot for the takedown. That's not all that age has taken from him, though. His wrestling is worse, his cardio, previously quite decent, has significantly deteriorated, with him tiring badly halfway through a fight and completely gassing near the end of the Crocop rematch, and even his chin is crumbling.

On the other hand you have Mir, whose movement is heavy, ponderous, lumbering, and, aside from his straight punches at the very beginning of a fight, slow. He also has a weak chin. Most significantly, though, his cardio makes modern-day Roy Nelson look like Demetrious Johnson by comparison. He was utterly spent near the end of round 1 against Javy Ayala in what hadn't exactly been a barnburner until then.

Neither one should be fighting, but both of these utterly delusional idiots, who are hardly hurting for money and have numerous other job opportunities (seminars, commentary, training), think they are still decent mixed martial artists and can't let go.

Unfortunately, this is not a 50/50 fight. With cardio like Frank's, one would struggle to win against...Javy Ayala.

Then again, I hate playing Nelson here at -175, too. There is absolutely a chance that Frank knocks him out with a big knee or a short hook, which are still technical and powerful, more than can be said for Nelson's blows. Again, Nelson's chin is nowhere near what it once was.

And even if Mir doesn't do that, how is Nelson going to win without getting takedowns? Crocop was badly winded, if not outright gassed for at least 2 whole rounds in the rematch, and he still won 2 rounds because he prevented the takedown and Nelson had damn near nothing else to offer.

Mir's striking is nowhere near as good as even 44 year-old Crocop's, but he could proceed similarly, winning round 1, make round 2 close enough with a few spurts of activity, and then lose round 3.

I'm passing on this fight.
 
PolarBearPaulVarelans said:
Mir vs. Nelson 2 is a fascinating match-up of two men whom Time has robbed of most of their fighting prowess.

On the one hand, you have Nelson, who, courtesy of severe brain trauma, has lost his reactions and even a good deal of his coordination (not fully extending his straight punches, not getting enough rotation into his hooks, being off-balance), making his striking utterly harmless and forcing him to cover up, absorbing punches before he can throw an overhand right (his only weapon left) or clinch/shoot for the takedown. That's not all that age has taken from him, though. His wrestling is worse, his cardio, previously quite decent, has significantly deteriorated, with him tiring badly halfway through a fight and completely gassing near the end of the Crocop rematch, and even his chin is crumbling.

On the other hand you have Mir, whose movement is heavy, ponderous, lumbering, and, aside from his straight punches at the very beginning of a fight, slow. He also has a weak chin. Most significantly, though, his cardio makes modern-day Roy Nelson look like Demetrious Johnson by comparison. He was utterly spent near the end of round 1 against Javy Ayala in what hadn't exactly been a barnburner until then.

Neither one should be fighting, but both of these utterly delusional idiots, who are hardly hurting for money and have numerous other job opportunities (seminars, commentary, training), think they are still decent mixed martial artists and can't let go.

Unfortunately, this is not a 50/50 fight. With cardio like Frank's, one would struggle to win against...Javy Ayala.

Then again, I hate playing Nelson here at -175, too. There is absolutely a chance that Frank knocks him out with a big knee or a short hook, which are still technical and powerful, more than can be said for Nelson's blows. Again, Nelson's chin is nowhere near what it once was.

And even if Mir doesn't do that, how is Nelson going to win without getting takedowns? Crocop was badly winded, if not outright gassed for at least 2 whole rounds in the rematch, and he still won 2 rounds because he prevented the takedown and Nelson had damn near nothing else to offer.

Mir's striking is nowhere near as good as even 44 year-old Crocop's, but he could proceed similarly, winning round 1, make round 2 close enough with a few spurts of activity, and then lose round 3.

I'm passing on this fight.
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You wrote a lot there and I can't debate all of it, but I think Nelson could easily win this fight without getting a single takedown. I think this fight could easily be contested 100% on the feet until a stoppage or potentially go to a decision with Roy out striking Frank and cracking his busted chin to knock him out or ending up in a cage pushing boring fight where he wins rounds on the feet. He doesn't desperately need the takedown against Mir as badly as he did against a still very dangerous striker with an decent chin in Cro Cop. I bet Roy pretty big myself. Either I think Frank is totally washed and this will be easy for relatively easy for Roy or I'm wrong with Frank showing some signs of life left in him and I lose. I'm willing to take that gamble around -175.
 
Bec Rawlings is coming back to mixed martial arts competition after a very successful three-fight sojourn into bare knuckle boxing and winning a title along the way. She has a fancy Police Gazette championship belt, but shouldn't be a -245 to -270 favorite to her Brazilian opponent Ilara Joanne in her Bellator MMA debut. Bec has faced some good opponents in her career at strawweight and her current home at flyweight, but her best actual victory if you take aside atomweight Seo Hee Ham would be Lisa Ellis. Seriously, check Tapology, that's her best win. I chose to tape Ilara Joanne's last half a dozen or so fights to see what kind of fighter she is. She hasn't fought any great competition on the regional scene, but she has decent striking, okay takedown ability and pretty good ground & pound. She doesn't give up or slow down during round 3 in fights that are close or back & forth. The two fights she lost in 2017 could easily have went her way from what I saw. Bec supposedly has a three inch height advantage at 5'6" to Ilara 5'3", and she'll probably have pretty sharp hands after a couple of years of mostly boxing training but there's no way you can bet Bec. As a matter of fact I think there's some value on Pitbull Brothers trained Joanne as a more than 2 to 1 underdog, so I bet her small at +211 hoping it's a scrappy fight where she rises to the occasion and spoils Bec's return to MMA.
 
JimGunn said:
You wrote a lot there and I can't debate all of it, but I think Nelson could easily win this fight without getting a single takedown. I think this fight could easily be contested 100% on the feet until a stoppage or potentially go to a decision with Roy out striking Frank and cracking his busted chin to knock him out or ending up in a cage pushing boring fight where he wins rounds on the feet. He doesn't desperately need the takedown against Mir as badly as he did against a still very dangerous striker with an decent chin in Cro Cop. I bet Roy pretty big myself. Either I think Frank is totally washed and this will be easy for relatively easy for Roy or I'm wrong with Frank showing some signs of life left in him and I lose. I'm willing to take that gamble around -175.
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Did you read what I wrote? Roy is severely brain-damaged. He can't even throw most punches with proper technique anymore. Not because he doesn't know how, but because his neurons aren't firing properly.

As if that weren't bad enough, his reactions are all off. Fucking Javy Ayala would have beaten him in a pure kickboxing match, so he was forced to wrestle.

If you want to splash around money, go ahead. But this reasoning is all off.
 
Soccer Steve said:
Nelson nearly beat Mitrione in a come from behind attempt. He was owned by Sergei, no question. He went to a decision with "late-career" CroCop. He still has some chin left.

Mir is completely washed.

Can anyone name a confirmed, no-question, washed fighter that pulled out a win? I can't think of any myself.
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Joe lauzon, jake ellenberger vs matt brown.
 
Bellator 231 & 232 Media Day Stare Downs:

 
PolarBearPaulVarelans said:
Did you read what I wrote? Roy is severely brain-damaged. He can't even throw most punches with proper technique anymore. Not because he doesn't know how, but because his neurons aren't firing properly.

As if that weren't bad enough, his reactions are all off. Fucking Javy Ayala would have beaten him in a pure kickboxing match, so he was forced to wrestle.

If you want to splash around money, go ahead. But this reasoning is all off.
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They're both faded older fighters who have taken too much punishment, but calling it severely brain damaged is hyperbole. Frank has the worst of it compared to Roy in my opinion if indeed they are both suffering from the deleterious effects of years as a pro fighter and multiple knockouts hence my lean and my bets.
 
Mir on his fight with Nelson:


Mir says that because of his friendship with Nelson, he isn’t expecting any fireworks in this fight, and he’s warning fans ahead of time that the fight may be a snoozer.

“Roy and I have have trained quite a bit since that fight,” Mir said. “We know each other, too. That’s the problem, but no one wants to listen to me. When two guys know each other well – Roy knows me, and I know him – the idea of trying to bring any trickery is not going to really happen. Both guys understand what the other guy can do, and become very good at nullifying it.”
 
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