Crime Chauvin/Floyd Trial: Guilty 2nd degree unintentional murder

[Protectandserve]

What did she say?

Sorry, I'm pressed for time and just wanting to catch up quick.

She told the crowd to get "confrontational" with their actions.

 

[mkess101]

The whole bag. There are too many outside factors going on for this to be a fair trial. Chauvin should've requested a judge to decide the case.

I believe he's guilty of manslaughter, but he'll get the max.

I was leaning manslaughter only, but now I'm really not sure. I agree, it's a circus.

 

[mkess101]

If they are just milling around they can prove it is a peaceful protest by getting up onto the sidewalk for cars.
It is not always easy to just turn around or what if you have to be somewhere in a building that is right in the vicinity of the protesters? Not everyone lives on Twitter to find out where the next protest spot will be. There have incidents where people have made wrong turns or not known there was a protest and have been caught in violence. Pedestrians should not be in the road and if they are in the road protesting they are creating issues for others.

I don't disagree with any of that honestly. But simply running them over isn't a viable option to deal with it.

What they're doing is illegal. They should not be doing it. No argument here. But you can't use a disproportionate measure when reacting to it. Someone shoplifting from a hardware store is breaking the law, but that doesn't mean that if they make a bolt for the door that an employee or owner of the shop can grab a nearby hatchet and embed it in the person's skull to stop them from getting away.

 

[gtm3]

Lol at the doofuses who say “guilty” or “innocent” as if it’s just one charge

 

[HereticBD]

I was leaning manslaughter only, but now I'm really not sure. I agree, it's a circus.

I think Chauvin has a responsibility in not rendering aid, but also using force that was not necessary to use on a restrained man. The length of time and his general IDGAF attitude during the whole thing, certainly requires some form of felony conviction. The intent is the only question. How(or if) the jury actually weighs in on that, remains to be seen.

 

[Arkain2K]

Is this going to be the pbp thread when the riots kick off? I see there is a church burning near the court house. @Arkain2K

This thread would easily reach 1,000 pages if that's the outcome. I don't think this is going to be another LA Riot though, it's extremely unlikely that this guy can walk free with no repercussion like all those cops in LA in the Rodney King case decades ago. Manslaughter should be a slamdunk.

That being said, I think @HockeyBjj should get his multi-monitor set up ready, just in case the shit hits the fan.
____

What are the charges against Derek Chauvin? Here's what the jury is considering for the death of George Floyd
TAMI ABDOLLAH AND KEVIN MCCOY | USA TODAY​

MINNEAPOLIS – The final phase of the Derek Chauvin trial began Monday with jurors hearing legal instructions on the three Minnesota criminal charges filed against him.

Chauvin, a former Minneapolis police officer, is charged with second-degree and third-degree murder, as well as second-degree manslaughter in the death of George Floyd on May 25, 2020, while in police custody. Chauvin was seen on video pressing his knee to Floyd's neck for more than nine minutes as Floyd pleaded that he could not breathe.

The jury on Monday heard closing statements from the prosecution in the defense after hearing witness testimony over the last three weeks. They are then expected to sequester to deliberate a verdict. Minnesota juries historically have reached verdicts within several days, particularly if they are sequestered, local legal experts told USA TODAY.

If convicted of the most serious charge, Chauvin faces 12 1/2 years or 150 months in prison under sentencing guidelines for a first-time offender. But, the prosecution argues there are aggravating factors that require a longer prison term. That means Chauvin may face a sentence longer than outlined in the guidelines.

The jury may convict Chauvin on any, all, or none of the charges.

Here's a breakdown:

Second-degree murder charge

Second-degree murder is causing the death of a human being, without intent to cause that death, while committing or attempting to commit another felony. In this case, the alleged felony was third-degree assault. Chauvin is charged with committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

To convict Chauvin on this count, Judge Peter Cahill told jurors they must find that the former officer intended to commit an assault that could cause bodily harm or intentionally aided in committing such an assault.

“It is not necessary for the state to prove the defendant had an intent to kill Floyd. But it must prove that the defendant committed, or attempted to commit, the underlying felony,” the judge said.

Cahill added that the state must prove that the assault either inflicted bodily harm on Floyd or was intended to commit bodily harm. That essentially could include loss of consciousness, the judge said.

“It is not necessary for the state to prove that the defendant intended to inflict substantial bodily harm, or knew that his actions would inflict substantial bodily harm, only that the defendant intended to commit the assault, and George Floyd sustained substantial bodily harm,” Cahill said.

Third-degree murder charge

Third-degree murder is unintentionally causing someone’s death by committing an act that is eminently dangerous to other persons while exhibiting a depraved mind, with reckless disregard for human life. Chauvin is accused of committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

Under Minnesota law, an act that is eminently dangerous is one that “is highly likely to cause death,” Cahill told jurors. “The defendant’s act may not have been specifically intended to cause death,” and “it may not have been specifically directed at the person whose death occurred, but it must have been committed with a conscious indifference to the loss of life,” said the judge.

Cahill ruled last fall that this charge did not fit the Chauvin case because the statute required a showing of danger to other persons. However, a Minnesota appeals court in February upheld the third-degree murder conviction of former Minneapolis police officer Mohamed Noor, who fatally shot Justine Ruszczyk Damond in 2017. Noor's actions were focused solely on Damond.

During jury selection in the Chauvin trial, the appeals court ruled that Cahill should not have dismissed this charge. He subsequently reinstated the allegation. The Minnesota Supreme Court is scheduled to hear an appeal of the Noor decision in June.

Second-degree manslaughter charge

Second-degree manslaughter is culpable negligence where a person creates an unreasonable risk and consciously takes the chance of causing death or great bodily harm to someone else. Chauvin is charged with committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

“Culpable negligence is intentional conduct that the defendant may not have intended to be harmful, but that an ordinary and reasonably prudent person would recognize as having a strong probability of causing injury to others,” Cahill told jurors.

In summing up his legal instructions on the charges, Cahill told the jury there is no crime if a line of duty police officer uses reasonable force to make a lawful arrest. He instructed the jurors to consider the "totality of the facts and circumstances" in deciding whether Chauvin's actions had been reasonable.

If convicted, Chauvin likely could face 12 1/2 years in prison under the state's sentencing guidelines for first-time offenders. However, he could receive a longer or lesser term.

Prosecutors have asked the court for a sentence higher than the state guidelines based on alleged aggravating factors. If the judge agrees, that likely means Chauvin would face no more than double the sentencing guidelines.

Jurors will not be released from service after they deliver their verdict. Instead, they will be instructed to decide on aggravating factors alleged by the prosecution.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7286597002

 

[mkess101]

I think Chauvin has a responsibility in not rendering aid, but also using force that was not necessary to use on a restrained man. The length of time and his general IDGAF attitude during the whole thing, certainly requires some form of felony conviction. The intent is the only question. How(or if) the jury actually weighs in on that, remains to be seen.

Agree 100%

 

[irish_thug]

I wish they'd show what Chauvin is doodling.

probably "this is why we kneel"

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

This thread would easily reach 1,000 pages if that's the outcome. I don't think this is going to be another LA Riot though, it's extremely unlikely that this guy can walk free with no repercussion like all those cops in LA in the Rodney King case decades ago.

That being said, I think @HockeyBjj should get his multi-monitor set up ready, just in case the shit hits the fan.

From way over here it feels like a 2nd/3rd degree manslaughter conviction won't be enough, from what I understand this is the most likely scenario.

 

[The XL]

I'm not fan of either the criminal police force that gets away with everything, nor am I these BLM thugs who use every situation to terrorize neighborhoods and loot sneaker stores, so I really have no horse in this race.

All that said, on the matter of lethal force it needs to be said that it's all relative. If I walk up to someone and bitch slap them, no one would consider that lethal force. Now if I did the same thing to a 90 year old woman, considering her age and frail state, that would be potentially lethal force. The point I'm making is that the force used against Floyd was lethal relative to the state he was in. I don't know if that warrants a murder conviction, but I do think its a relevant point.

 

[Arkain2K]

From way over here it feels like a 2nd/3rd degree manslaughter conviction won't be enough, from what I understand this is the most likely scenario.

To be fair, there are people out there who wouldn't be satisfied unless this guy's body is swinging from the gallow, and I have no doubt we would see some sporadic instances of protests and violence if it's 2nd Degree Manslaughter as widely expected, even though it's debatable if everyone involved actually adept enough in the matter of law to understand what Manslaughter is and why it's perfectly appropriate if that's what the jury decide on.

What we wouldn't see though is a "Not Guity to All Charges" verdict followed by a full blown city-wide riot with entire neighborhoods burned down to ashes like LA.

 

[ElKarlo]

Cost/benefit analysis though. I'm not getting locked up for something like that. I'll turn around and take a different route rather than catch a vehicular manslaughter charge or something.

I think most people would. Problem is often these drivers were surrounded and couldn’t flee before being surrounded.

 

[mkess101]

I think most people would. Problem is often these drivers were surrounded and couldn’t flee before being surrounded.

For sure, that's a different story.

 

[Da Boss]

The jury is deliberating, so it could be as early as tomorrow. If it goes later than that, hang onto your butts. I expect a swift guilty verdict. Anything longer than a day, and it's gonna get interesting.

Thanks man.

 

[scoopj]

probably "this is why we kneel"

 

[scoopj]

I think Chauvin has a responsibility in not rendering aid, but also using force that was not necessary to use on a restrained man. The length of time and his general IDGAF attitude during the whole thing, certainly requires some form of felony conviction. The intent is the only question. How(or if) the jury actually weighs in on that, remains to be seen.

Intent is not a factor in any of the 3 charges.

 

[Seano]

probably "this is why we kneel"

Damn, thats pretty good.

 

[DavidsGhost]

I think Chauvin has a responsibility in not rendering aid, but also using force that was not necessary to use on a restrained man. The length of time and his general IDGAF attitude during the whole thing, certainly requires some form of felony conviction. The intent is the only question. How(or if) the jury actually weighs in on that, remains to be seen.

I agree. I say the fact that he stayed in GF 2 minutes after he has no pulse is basically a direct line to some kind of felony. There’s no two ways about it

 

[ElKarlo]

For sure, that's a different story.

Word man. Sorry out of likes

 

[KnightTemplar]

probably "this is why we kneel"