China's Canadian hostages

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Plutonium Belt
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- As retaliation for Canada arresting Meng Wanzhou - CFO of Huawei and the founder's daughter - the Chinese government has taken 2 Canadians , who were in China on business , as hostages.

- The CCP trumped up charges against Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor , claiming they were spies. Everyone outside of China says this is retaliation for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou.

- Meng has been treated very well, having the luxury of house arrest rather then be incarcerated in cramped appaling prison conditions. Meng also has been granted good access to high end lawyers. In contrast, the Canadian men in China have been denied consular access since Jan and been thrown into a Chinese prison in appaling conditions.

- What China is doing is no different to when militant groups grab Western tourists in the hopes of securing the release of fellow militants or for ransom.

- Why the eff isn't the Canadian governemnt throwing Meng into prison under shitty conditions as a bargaining chip , to force China to treat the 2 Canadians better? Why is Canada being super nice while China is being shit.

- Why isn't Canada , and the US, boycotting Chinese goods, like India did after the border fight.

- Meng holds permanent Canadian residency even though she has a special passport issued to CCP employess. Meng has 7 passports not including the special Chinese passport.

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“In the past these kinds of detentions would have been unthinkable,” said Jean-Pierre Cabestan, a professor of political science at Hong Kong Baptist University. “It’s a clear illustration of this new Cold War. We are in a much more conflictual era.”

The charges were largely seen as a sinister quid pro quo for last month's ruling by a Canadian court that prosecutors had satisfied a critical legal requirement for the extradition of the Huawei executive, Meng Wanzhou, to the United States, where she faces sweeping fraud charges.

In Canada, China experts said that Friday’s announcement was further proof that Canada’s conciliatory approach to China had not worked, and that it was time for the country to take a tougher stance.

“The only language China understands is one of firmness,” said Mr. Saint-Jacques, suggesting that the Canadian government deport Chinese nationals determined to be executing their government’s “soft power” in the country by monitoring Chinese students on Canadian university campuses or intimidating Chinese-Canadians.



Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall, but I can post most of if it is ok to do so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/world/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spavor.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/19/trudeau-china-2-canadians-charged-spying-329803

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou

 
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I am concerned with this statement from Wikipedia: "On April 23, 2020, the 500th day of Kovrig's captivity, Trudeau said consular services for detained Canadians were not currently available on account of the coronavirus".

Justin, send your effing consular officers to the effing prison to ensure your kidnapped citizens are not dying in a Chinese prison.
 
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I am concerned with this statement from Wikipedia: "On April 23, 2020, the 500th day of Kovrig's captivity, Trudeau said consular services for detained Canadians were not currently available on account of the coronavirus".

Justin, send your effing consular officers to the effing prison to ensure your kidnapped citizens are not dying in a Chinese prison.
"Coronavirus" as a reason sounds bollocks. May be the Chinese are using the virus as an excuse to prevent consular access, to pressure Canada to release Weng.
 
I don't see the reason of torturing Meng, or bowing down and releasing her. Neither option is very strategic.

Unfortunately, it just is what it is. Gotta ride it out. I'd like us to do more, but we're Canada. Not a lot of bargaining chips. This is a matter for an international court setting, but shit, this is pretty small potatoes compared to what China has done to the world with COVID. I don't expect this to get much attention, if the world powers don't even give a shit about China literally poisoning the world.
 
I don't see the reason of torturing Meng, or bowing down and releasing her. Neither option is very strategic.

Unfortunately, it just is what it is. Gotta ride it out. I'd like us to do more, but we're Canada. Not a lot of bargaining chips. This is a matter for an international court setting, but shit, this is pretty small potatoes compared to what China has done to the world with COVID. I don't expect this to get much attention, if the world powers don't even give a shit about China literally poisoning the world.

I haven't heard anyone saying she should be tortured. She shouldn't be afforded the luxury of house arrest. Put her in a shitty prison that run of the mill folks have to deal with. Restrict access to her lawyers and consular services, until China treats the Canadians in a just manner.

Canada is not a small fry country with little world influence. Canada can do a whole lot more. An Indian style boycott, restricting visas, clamping down on Chinese soft power in Universities are all things Canada can do.
 
We should burn their Chinese White House down.
 
I haven't heard anyone saying she should be tortured. She shouldn't be afforded the luxury of house arrest. Put her in a shitty prison that run of the mill folks have to deal with. Restrict access to her lawyers and consular services, until China treats the Canadians in a just manner.

The problem is that China will never treat those guys decently, no matter what. Right now, she's being treated respectfully, and China don't give a fuck. Throwing her in some shit hole won't do a damn thing, but quench some meaningless thirst for revenge...which might also lead to China just executing our guys.

We're up shit creek, here. Just have to ride it out and deal with the circumstances until the matter is settled.
 
The problem is that China will never treat those guys decently, no matter what. Right now, she's being treated respectfully, and China don't give a fuck. Throwing her in some shit hole won't do a damn thing, but quench some meaningless thirst for revenge...which might also lead to China just executing our guys.

We're up shit creek, here. Just have to ride it out and deal with the circumstances until the matter is settled.

Playing nice with China brings nothing. China only understand pressure.
 
Playing nice with China brings nothing. China only understand pressure.

What "pressure" do you believe Canada can put them under? We could hang the bitch in the streets, and it won't do a damn thing to change China's tune, other than make them even angrier.

Not bowing down to their pressure, is about all we can do. We're actually not playing nice with them. If we were, she'd be back in China.
 
What "pressure" do you believe Canada can put them under? We could hang the bitch in the streets, and it won't do a damn thing to change China's tune, other than make them even angrier.

Not bowing down to their pressure, is about all we can do.
Canada could just toss her ass in the worst jail they got, with no creature comforts and little or no access to consular services and come up with excuses to limit her access to lawyers. Canada can signal to China that 2 can play their game.

Aside from the above, what about boycotts , moratorium on visas, cutting off academic links, closing down Chinese soft power in universities, heightened focus on CCP crimes by Canadian media and government to engender very bad PR for China.
 
- Why the eff isn't the Canadian governemnt throwing Meng into prison under shitty conditions as a bargaining chip , to force China to treat the 2 Canadians better? Why is Canada being super nice while China is being shit.

- Why isn't Canada , and the US, boycotting Chinese goods, like India did after the border fight.

Because the Canadian government and its people value politeness to criminals over the lives of Canadian citizens?
 
Reminds me of that Asian dude from the hangover saying quid pro quo.
 
I don't see the reason of torturing Meng, or bowing down and releasing her. Neither option is very strategic.

Unfortunately, it just is what it is. Gotta ride it out. I'd like us to do more, but we're Canada. Not a lot of bargaining chips. This is a matter for an international court setting, but shit, this is pretty small potatoes compared to what China has done to the world with COVID. I don't expect this to get much attention, if the world powers don't even give a shit about China literally poisoning the world.
Yep, this is the problem here: we (Canada) don't have nearly enough leverage to deal with this ourselves. So we need the international community. You mentioned Covid....yes, China should pay for that and most likely won't. But it goes back decades farther. Anybody remember that China is illegally occupying Tibet? This shit has been going on for decades, I remember protests about this when I was a kid (so 30+ years ago). Anybody doing anything about this, besides verbally expressing 'displeasure'? Yea, exactly. Nobody's going to do fucking anything here to help two Canadians. The two Michaels are - very unfortunately - fucked.
 
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