China's Canadian hostages

[Kaiowas]

The lady has done nothing wrong. Canada should free her and China will free the two Canadians.

- As retaliation for Canada arresting Meng Wanzhou - CFO of Huawei and the founder's daughter - the Chinese government has taken 2 Canadians , who were in China on business , as hostages.

- The CCP trumped up charges against Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor , claiming they were spies. Everyone outside of China says this is retaliation for the arrest of Meng Wanzhou.

- Meng has been treated very well, having the luxury of house arrest rather then be incarcerated in cramped appaling prison conditions. Meng also has been granted good access to high end lawyers. In contrast, the Canadian men in China have been denied consular access since Jan and been thrown into a Chinese prison in appaling conditions.

- What China is doing is no different to when militant groups grab Western tourists in the hopes of securing the release of fellow militants or for ransom.

- Why the eff isn't the Canadian governemnt throwing Meng into prison under shitty conditions as a bargaining chip , to force China to treat the 2 Canadians better? Why is Canada being super nice while China is being shit.

- Why isn't Canada , and the US, boycotting Chinese goods, like India did after the border fight.

- Meng holds permanent Canadian residency even though she has a special passport issued to CCP employess. Meng has 7 passports not including the special Chinese passport.

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“In the past these kinds of detentions would have been unthinkable,” said Jean-Pierre Cabestan, a professor of political science at Hong Kong Baptist University. “It’s a clear illustration of this new Cold War. We are in a much more conflictual era.”

The charges were largely seen as a sinister quid pro quo for last month's ruling by a Canadian court that prosecutors had satisfied a critical legal requirement for the extradition of the Huawei executive, Meng Wanzhou, to the United States, where she faces sweeping fraud charges.

In Canada, China experts said that Friday’s announcement was further proof that Canada’s conciliatory approach to China had not worked, and that it was time for the country to take a tougher stance.

“The only language China understands is one of firmness,” said Mr. Saint-Jacques, suggesting that the Canadian government deport Chinese nationals determined to be executing their government’s “soft power” in the country by monitoring Chinese students on Canadian university campuses or intimidating Chinese-Canadians.


Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall, but I can post most of if it is ok to do so.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/world/asia/china-canada-kovrig-spavor.html

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/19/trudeau-china-2-canadians-charged-spying-329803

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meng_Wanzhou

 

[HereticBD]

Canada could just toss her ass in the worst jail they got, with no creature comforts and little or no access to consular services and come up with excuses to limit her access to lawyers. Canada can signal to China that 2 can play their game.

Aside from the above, what about boycotts , moratorium on visas, cutting off academic links, closing down Chinese soft power in universities, heightened focus on CCP crimes by Canadian media and government to engender very bad PR for China.

You're forgetting what they can do to us.

Sure, we can pretend to be Billy Badass and do our worst, but China doing their worst is a far greater threat to us, than whatever we can conjure up would be to them. If things weren't so completely fucked up right now, we could ask you guys to help out and lean on them a bit more, but you've got bigger fish to fry than two Canadians being unjustly detained by China.

 

[bref]

A few months ago someone (the CCP) was paying people $150 to appear as pro-Meng protestors outside of her first court appearance in Vancouver.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...huawei-executives-trial-says-she-is-an-actor/

Fuck the CCP.

 

[MicroBrew]

You're forgetting what they can do to us.

Sure, we can pretend to be Billy Badass and do our worst, but China doing their worst is a far greater threat to us, than whatever we can conjure up would be to them. If things weren't so completely fucked up right now, we could ask you guys to help out and lean on them a bit more, but you've got bigger fish to fry than two Canadians being unjustly detained by China.

What can they do? You have a lot of land and a lot of resources. And if things really get bad, you still got the Anglosphere to help you out. I think China's power is overestimated.

Your major export market is the US, which totally dwarfs your exports to China. Your second largest export market is the European Union. China is 3rd.

I think you are underestimating the power of Canada and overestimating China's power.

 

[Fatality]

Unfortunately our glorious "leader" Trudeau is a spineless pussy and a complete disgrace to our country. With him in charge I don't see the situation improving at all, i'm actually very confident he can/will fuck us over even further than he already has.

 

[Grenz]

I haven't heard anyone saying she should be tortured. She shouldn't be afforded the luxury of house arrest. Put her in a shitty prison that run of the mill folks have to deal with. Restrict access to her lawyers and consular services, until China treats the Canadians in a just manner.

Canada is not a small fry country with little world influence. Canada can do a whole lot more. An Indian style boycott, restricting visas, clamping down on Chinese soft power in Universities are all things Canada can do.

I think the problem here is that there's nothing we can do that doesn't involve Meng that would have any significant impact on the situation. The only card we have is her. The problem is that China and Canada are playing the same game, but by different rules. So let's say we put her in the worst situation we legally can. China in turn plays the death penalty card and we can't match, because Canada is a civilized country and doesn't execute people. Now the only option we have left is to try for the prisoner swap, which is what China always wanted in the first place.

 

[HereticBD]

What can they do? You have a lot of land and a lot of resources. And if things really get bad, you still got the Anglosphere to help you out. I think China's power is overestimated.

You may feel that way, but the reality is, nobody really fucks with them for a reason. Trump was the first guy in a long time(if not ever), to even consider challenging them, let alone do it.

Your major export market is the US, which totally dwarfs your exports to China. Your second largest export market is the European Union. China is 3rd.

I think you are underestimating the power of Canada and overestimating China's power.

What do you think would happen to any Canadian over there, if we stepped up to them? It would no longer be just two guys in their custody, and nobody would stop them from doing whatever to them.

You don't negotiate with terrorists...but you don't piss them off further, when they hold all the cards either. This is like asking some little nation the US is fucking with, to stand up to them. It's simply not an option. We're doing all we can by not bowing to their pressure. That's about all we can do. Nothing good would come from making an example out of that lady. We don't have the clout to become bullies.

 

[Bargey]

Canada could just toss her ass in the worst jail they got, with no creature comforts and little or no access to consular services and come up with excuses to limit her access to lawyers. Canada can signal to China that 2 can play their game.

Aside from the above, what about boycotts , moratorium on visas, cutting off academic links, closing down Chinese soft power in universities, heightened focus on CCP crimes by Canadian media and government to engender very bad PR for China.

All true but can anyone see Trudeau doing any of this? It’s sad when India who probably has as much to lose as anyone by standing up to China, is the only country with the balls to actually do it.

 

[Strategery]

Imagine China doing that to 2 Russian citizens while Putin is in power.

 

[Strategery]

Just put Meng in same holding condition as the 2 Michaels.

 

[Orgasmo]

Canada shouldn't have gotten involved in this mess in the first place. We bore the blunt of China's anger while Murica gave zero support other than lip service. Since Trump is throwing us under the bus with more tariffs, we should just exchange Meng for those two.

 

[JimmyFresno]

Send in 1994 Harold Howard.

He'll COME ON all over those damned ChiComs, while wearing black Terminator shades, and waving around a huge Canadian Maple Leaf flag.

Harold Howard > Justine Trudeau.

 

[JbModest]

How the fuck do you get seven passports?

 

[MicroBrew]

You may feel that way, but the reality is, nobody really fucks with them for a reason. Trump was the first guy in a long time(if not ever), to even consider challenging them, let alone do it.



What do you think would happen to any Canadian over there, if we stepped up to them? It would no longer be just two guys in their custody, and nobody would stop them from doing whatever to them.

You don't negotiate with terrorists...but you don't piss them off further, when they hold all the cards either. This is like asking some little nation the US is fucking with, to stand up to them. It's simply not an option. We're doing all we can by not bowing to their pressure. That's about all we can do. Nothing good would come from making an example out of that lady. We don't have the clout to become bullies.

That is why you pull all Canadians out of China before you lay the smack down.

Canada can also recognize Taiwan, and indicate they will assist India and South East Asian nations drastically upgrade their weapons systems.

 

[Deleted member 263856]

Canada should give China Trudeau as a prisoner in exchange for the two Canadian hostages. It is a Win-Win situation.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Considering the things China's gotten away with, these two Canadians are unfortunately small potatoes. And you're not going to get them to back down by being mean to Meng. The Chinese give fewer shits than Canada, by far.

So, take out your frustration on your own captive, if it makes you feel better - 'cos that's all it will do.

 

[Orgasmo]

That is why you pull all Canadians out of China before you lay the smack down.

Canada can also recognize Taiwan, and indicate they will assist India and South East Asian nations drastically upgrade their weapons systems.

Why would we do that? That effectively shuts Canada out of China's consumer markets. It will force Canada to be more reliant on US. We're in this mess because of your stupid Iran sanction in the first place. Your ideas, while beneficial to US, are all loss and no gain for Canada. Trump administration has left us holding the bag with this Huawei mess while throwing us under the bus with tariffs.

WASHINGTON — The United States is once again threatening to spark a fresh tariff war with Canada over aluminum exports, despite the debut of a North American trade agreement that was supposed to usher in stability in the midst of an international economic crisis.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-trump-steel-aluminum-tariffs-1.5642617

We're not your client state and Canada should reduce its reliance on US trade by diversifying. You have proven yourself to be an unreliable partner under Trump. Fight your own battles.

 

[evansusmc2]

Gonna have to cancel my Beijing vacation this year.

 

[TUFNewb]

Why the eff isn't the Canadian governemnt throwing Meng into prison under shitty conditions as a bargaining chip , to force China to treat the 2 Canadians better? Why is Canada being super nice while China is being shit.

Section 12 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids cruel and unusual punishment. They can snatch up all the hostages they want, but Canada won't compromise its values. Meng will get her day in court and the chips will fall where they may.

 

[Bald1]

Aside from the above, what about boycotts , moratorium on visas, cutting off academic links, closing down Chinese soft power in universities, heightened focus on CCP crimes by Canadian media and government to engender very bad PR for China.

This is not how you buy the votes of new citizens who have bought their citizenships with foreign money. Trudeau would rather shit on his own citizens than risk losing support of newly imported ethnic voting blocks.