Christian Rodriguez snatching another O

[dipstickjimmy]

Both guys had obvious 10-8s. Dulgarian in Round 1 and C-Rod in Round 3. If you think otherwise, then reread the scoring criteria.

The fight really does come down to how you score Round 2. I feel Dulgarian did just enough to edge it, but I am open to arguments that he wasn't sufficiently active in terms of Impactful scoring whereas C-Rod was sneaking in more shots like that knee to the head (probably the biggest strike of the round).

80% of the round in control time and 4 tds should easily outweigh a 18-15 differential in strikes (per UFC stats). None of the strikes thrown and landed by Rodrigez were significant enough to make up for that much time on the ground. That type of scoring is on the level of that NBA ref who was point shaving and fixing games. Worthy of an investigation by federal authorities.

Corrupt or Incompetent and either way it needs to be addressed.

 

[Safton]

80% of the round in control time and 4 tds should easily outweigh a 18-15 differential in strikes (per UFC stats). None of the strikes thrown and landed by Rodrigez were significant enough to make up for that much time on the ground. That type of scoring is on the level of that NBA ref who was point shaving and fixing games. Worthy of an investigation by federal authorities.

Corrupt or Incompetent and either way it needs to be addressed.

Control time, in and of itself, does not score unless you're going all the way to tertiary scoring criteria. Neither does looking at volume stats on a page in a vacuum in C-Rod's case.

The question is one of Effective Striking/Grappling and the Impactful results of what each athlete was doing inside those five minutes per the Unified Rules. I can see an argument for either dude and like I said, I felt like Isaac did enough to sufficiently edge it via Effective Grappling, but throwing out control time stats in isolation is rarely the way to go about it.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Should have been a draw (10-8 third round) but I'm not mad at a blanket getting robbed

If you give rd1 10-8 dulgarian and rd3 rodriguez (which virtually everyone did), then it's not a draw. Whoever wins rd2 wins the fight.

 

[gentel]

Blatant robbery and in addition, I do believe Dulgarian's greasing accusations. Guy was looking pretty shiny early on in the fight. It's not like Chito's stupid accusation against O'Malley, it's more credible like Burns accusing Masvidal of greasing which was very credible given that Mas is a slimeball who would absolutely cheat, Gilbert had a strangely hard time grappling him, and Gilbert won and was making the accusation cause it was true

 

[Oscar Madison]

Come on, man, blankets don't stick to you like that no matter what you do. Dulgarian displayed awesome grappling.

Fleece Blankets stick like crazy -- then when you finally pull it off and you reach for the Light -- ZAP! goes the static electricity.

Vegas Life...

Anyway -- should've been a DRAW.

 

[Goodfella86]

This guy is a round 3 beast. One of my favorite fighters.

 

[pātrēärkē]

If you give rd1 10-8 dulgarian and rd3 rodriguez (which virtually everyone did), then it's not a draw. Whoever wins rd2 wins the fight.

So obviously I didn't. Winning a round convincingly with control while doing no damage doesn't warrant a 10-8

 

[blaseblase]

80% of the round in control time and 4 tds should easily outweigh a 18-15 differential in strikes (per UFC stats). None of the strikes thrown and landed by Rodrigez were significant enough to make up for that much time on the ground. That type of scoring is on the level of that NBA ref who was point shaving and fixing games. Worthy of an investigation by federal authorities.

Corrupt or Incompetent and either way it needs to be addressed.

Control time doesn't matter. Most of that "control" was Dulgarian trying and failing to get a takedown. And I don't know where you're getting 18-15 from. Rodriguez landed 30% more strikes and they were all head shots.

If you think this is a robbery you are still stuck on the old scoring system.

 

[fortheo]

80% of the round in control time and 4 tds should easily outweigh a 18-15 differential in strikes (per UFC stats). None of the strikes thrown and landed by Rodrigez were significant enough to make up for that much time on the ground. That type of scoring is on the level of that NBA ref who was point shaving and fixing games. Worthy of an investigation by federal authorities.

Corrupt or Incompetent and either way it needs to be addressed.

control time doesn't really score in of itself, and the vast majority of that "control time" in round 2 was dulgarian holding the body lock position and doing nothing with it because he failed to hold Rodriguez down.

I'm not arguing Rodriguez won it either, personally I thought a draw was an acceptable le score.

 

[Psychojoe86]

This fight pissed me off so much at the time... and now I've cooled down a bit. It's just misleading constantly posting this "control time" stat in fights, and it finally delivered some major confusion.

Control time is not in the criteria for effective grappling. Effective grappling needs to be on the ground for the most part. Therefore, with Dulgarian not keeping Rodriguez down in any significant positions on the ground, his control time wasn't given any credit by 2 judges. they did see rodriguez land 2 seemingly big strikes and so they gave him the round imo.

I still don't give that round to rodriguez at all though. Dulgarian was taking him down numerous times and outpacing him the entire round, with rodriguez doing nothing but defending and hanging on, aside from 2 decent strikes landed. dulgarian landed some strikes as well. Just I believe he was penalized for not keeping rodriguez down on the mat during the grappling.

 

[TerrorTimmy]

How did he actually win though?

Because he lost r1 very badly.

Then lost r2 pretty clearly.

Then won round 3 very clearly.

But like, even if r1 was 10-9 for Dulg and Rod got a 10-8 r3, then it still should have been a draw because Dulg clearly won round 2.

Like, what the fuck did Rod do to win r2?

The judges don't know how the rules work and don't know how to add, so we get some weird scores like this.

Has anyone seen the judges' score card?

Honestly they need to fix the bad judging because we've gotten way too used to it. If a judge can't defend their score, fire them.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Fun fighter but he should have lost his last bout and he's missed weight far too often for me to champion him taking undefeated records from guys.

 

[Substance Abuse]

The judges don't know how the rules work and don't know how to add, so we get some weird scores like this.

Has anyone seen the judges' score card?

Honestly they need to fix the bad judging because we've gotten way too used to it. If a judge can't defend their score, fire them.

He was awarded the second round. Which he should not have been.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Control time, in and of itself, does not score unless you're going all the way to tertiary scoring criteria. Neither does looking at volume stats on a page in a vacuum in C-Rod's case.

The question is one of Effective Striking/Grappling and the Impactful results of what each athlete was doing inside those five minutes per the Unified Rules. I can see an argument for either dude and like I said, I felt like Isaac did enough to sufficiently edge it via Effective Grappling, but throwing out control time stats in isolation is rarely the way to go about it.

Wasn't throwing out the stats in isolation. Watching the fight round 1 was 100% a 10-8. The second was 100% a 10-9 and the 3rd was 100% 8-10. The stats bear out that assessment of the 2nd round. When neither fighter has done much in the striking and no big power shots were landed and volume was not clearly discernable for one over the other then 80% + of control time with 4 TDs should clear things up for anyone trying to decide the winner of the round. If the striking was exactly the same and he landed a TD in the last 30 seconds with no control or damage I could entertain Rodrigez getting a round based on the tiny difference in strikes but not in this kind of case. Learn to defend TDs.

 

[burningspear]

i'll take a dog like rodriguez any day over a fancy dan who looks a million dollars for a rd and a half

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I don't know where you're getting 18-15 from. Rodriguez landed 30% more strikes and they were all head shots.

UFC official stats round 2 18-15 total strikes in Rodrigez' favour. Nothing of what either fighter landed was "Significant" IMO. Control time of 80% of the round and equal in the striking in my opinion 100% makes a difference. I am not a fan of lay n pray but he wasn't laying around holding position. He was offensive in his grappling attacks and Rodrigez was defending well.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

control time doesn't really score in of itself, and the vast majority of that "control time" in round 2 was dulgarian holding the body lock position and doing nothing with it because he failed to hold Rodriguez down.

I'm not arguing Rodriguez won it either, personally I thought a draw was an acceptable le score.

Control time of that massive amount (80% of the round) certainly factors when the striking was as Goldie might say "Virtually Identical"

 

[Safton]

Wasn't throwing out the stats in isolation. Watching the fight round 1 was 100% a 10-8. The second was 100% a 10-9 and the 3rd was 100% 8-10. The stats bear out that assessment of the 2nd round. When neither fighter has done much in the striking and no big power shots were landed and volume was not clearly discernable for one over the other then 80% + of control time with 4 TDs should clear things up for anyone trying to decide the winner of the round. If the striking was exactly the same and he landed a TD in the last 30 seconds with no control or damage I could entertain Rodrigez getting a round based on the tiny difference in strikes but not in this kind of case. Learn to defend TDs.

You sort of were, though, at least IMO. Control time and volume stats require context which is what I'm saying. I already said Rounds 1 and 3 were 100% a 10-8.

I would argue that the volume was discernibly higher in favor of Rodriguez, just not by a huge margin. He also landed the hardest shot of the round. That having been said, Isaac landed some solid shots of his own while marching forward and didn't have nothing but what I call "empty control". It was clear when he was grappling that he was attempting to work towards more dominant positions when he did score TDs (some of which were fairly high-amplitude), mixing in some occasional ground strikes in transition, etc. As such, I feel that the sum total of Isaac's work was sufficient to edge out Christian's because a lot of Dulgarian's control time constitutes a fair amount of Effective Grappling per the Rules and he had some modest success of his own in the striking realm to boot. Furthermore, even if we call primary scoring criteria a wash and go to the secondary/tertiary criteria then Isaac absolutely takes those by a wide margin.

The only way to score Round 2 for C-Rod is if you feel that the shots he was landing in transition -- particularly the knee -- were enough to totally edge out all of Dulgarian's efforts on the feet and in the grappling realm. Personally, for me as someone who scored the fight for Isaac, that's a tough sell but when that objectively I can understand people making if they're so inclined.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

How did he actually win though?

Because he lost r1 very badly.

Then lost r2 pretty clearly.

Then won round 3 very clearly.

But like, even if r1 was 10-9 for Dulg and Rod got a 10-8 r3, then it still should have been a draw because Dulg clearly won round 2.

Like, what the fuck did Rod do to win r2?

I had it a draw

 

[xhaydenx]

The judges don't know how the rules work and don't know how to add, so we get some weird scores like this.

Has anyone seen the judges' score card?

Honestly they need to fix the bad judging because we've gotten way too used to it. If a judge can't defend their score, fire them.

Scores were 10-8 in rounds 1 and 3 for the obvious fighter, and then two 10-9s for Rod in r2:

Christian Rodriguez def. Isaac Dulgarian :: UFC on ESPN+ 97 :: MMA Decisions

mmadecisions.com

Yeh, judging definitely has too much bias and just lack of knowledge in it. I bet a lot on WMMA and pay more attention to it there, and they fuck it up so much lol.