International Disunited Kingdom: The Renewed Call For Scottish Independence, Part 2.

Arkain2K said:


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I was thinking Mel Gibson freed the Scots from the Jews, what has changed?
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ndependence-referendum-sturgeon-b2111310.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ndum-boris-johnson-g7-brexit-uk-politics-live

1200px-Nicola_Sturgeon_2021.jpg


Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has set a date for the second proposed Scottish independence referendum.

She told MSPs it will be held on October 19 2023, with the question to be asked the same as in the 2014 vote “Should Scotland be an independent country?” Ms Sturgeon said she would be writing to Boris Johnson to inform him of her plans.

She added she would make clear she is “ready and willing” to negotiate the terms of a Section 30 order with him, which would give Holyrood the power to hold a referendum. Mr Johnson has previously refused her calls for another referendum to be held.

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Nicola Sturgeon has asked the supreme court to rule on whether the Scottish government can hold a non-binding referendum on independence, without having Boris Johnson’s permission to stage one. The supreme court has indicated that it will hear the case. Jonathan Sumption, a former supreme court justice, told the PM programme that it looked as if it would be “very difficult” for Sturgeon to obtain a referendum this way.

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Commenting on Sturgeon’s announcement, Boris Johnson told reporters travelling with him to the Nato summit in Madrid.

I haven’t seen exactly what she’s said yet. We will study it very carefully and we will respond properly.

The focus of the country should be on building a stronger economy, that’s what we’re doing with our plan for a stronger economy and I certainly think that we’ll be able to have a stronger economy and a stronger country together.
 
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650lb Sumo said:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ndependence-referendum-sturgeon-b2111310.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ndum-boris-johnson-g7-brexit-uk-politics-live

1200px-Nicola_Sturgeon_2021.jpg


Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon has set a date for the second proposed Scottish independence referendum.

She told MSPs it will be held on October 19 2023, with the question to be asked the same as in the 2014 vote “Should Scotland be an independent country?” Ms Sturgeon said she would be writing to Boris Johnson to inform him of her plans.

She added she would make clear she is “ready and willing” to negotiate the terms of a Section 30 order with him, which would give Holyrood the power to hold a referendum. Mr Johnson has previously refused her calls for another referendum to be held.

/

Nicola Sturgeon has asked the supreme court to rule on whether the Scottish government can hold a non-binding referendum on independence, without having Boris Johnson’s permission to stage one. The supreme court has indicated that it will hear the case. Jonathan Sumption, a former supreme court justice, told the PM programme that it looked as if it would be “very difficult” for Sturgeon to obtain a referendum this way.

/

Commenting on Sturgeon’s announcement, Boris Johnson told reporters travelling with him to the Nato summit in Madrid.

I haven’t seen exactly what she’s said yet. We will study it very carefully and we will respond properly.

The focus of the country should be on building a stronger economy, that’s what we’re doing with our plan for a stronger economy and I certainly think that we’ll be able to have a stronger economy and a stronger country together.
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For the love of God, man, put that...thing in Spoiler Tags with a warning above them! <{clintugh}>
 
If Scotland secedes from the UK, London will go batshit aggressive in trying to hurt the Scots as much as possible, economically, politically, and in other ways. An Orange revolution mayhaps...

However, I believe Scotland should be free!!!
As well as Wales and the Northern part of Ireland.

freedom-braveheart.gif
 
fungi said:
If Scotland secedes from the UK, London will go batshit aggressive in trying to hurt the Scots as much as possible, economically, politically, and in other ways. An Orange revolution mayhaps...

However, I believe Scotland should be free!!!
As well as Wales and the Northern part of Ireland.

freedom-braveheart.gif
Click to expand...
London doesn't need to do anything to hurt the Scotts, knowing that Scotland will be totally fucked if they ever have to start making economic sense on their own.
 
Sturgeon might want to upgrade her personal security.

In 1985, Willie McRae, an SNP member who claimed to have hard evidence of a conspiracy involving the UK Atomic Energy Authority was found mortally wounded in his car. He had been shot twice in the back of the head. The gun was found sixty feet away in a burn(river). His office was burgled that same night, and all the evidence he had gathered was stolen.

Scottish police ruled that his death was, "undetermined":rolleyes:

In spite of several requests from high level Scottish politicians and lawyers, one of them McRae's son, successive governments have refused to allow access to police and security service files on McRae's death, or hold a public enquiry.

Bottom line: while they don't like to get their hands dirty, if you push them too far there are no more ruthless bastards on God's green earth than the English Establishment.
 
SanchoMF said:
London doesn't need to do anything to hurt the Scotts, knowing that Scotland will be totally fucked if they ever have to start making economic sense on their own.
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Care to elaborate?
 
KnightTemplar said:
Sturgeon might want to upgrade her personal security.

In 1985, Willie McRae, an SNP member who claimed to have hard evidence of a conspiracy involving the UK Atomic Energy Authority was found mortally wounded in his car. He had been shot twice in the back of the head. The gun was found sixty feet away in a burn(river). His office was burgled that same night, and all the evidence he had gathered was stolen.

Scottish police ruled that his death was, "undetermined":rolleyes:

In spite of several requests from high level Scottish politicians and lawyers, one of them McRae's son, successive governments have refused to allow access to police and security service files on McRae's death, or hold a public enquiry.

Bottom line: while they don't like to get their hands dirty, if you push them too far there are no more ruthless bastards on God's green earth than the English Establishment.
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The British establishment certainly are ruthless but I think you will find those the toughest on Scots are other Scots (whether working with the English or not).

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/5...-judiciary-paedophile-ring-reveal-says-friend

He said: “Willie told me perhaps two or three years before his death that he had come across information on this paedophile ring in the Scottish judiciary. Those were his worlds.

“He was appalled by it. He was aware of sexual abuse going on – there is no doubt about that.

McRae was seen with a briefcase full of papers, which he showed to his friend PC Donald Morrison with the words: “I’ve got them this time.”

Two weeks ago, we revealed that private investigator Iain Fraser – who recently passed away – believed McRae had a dossier on a high-ranking paedophile network. He was said to have made photocopies of the document before he left for the Highlands, which were posted out to a number of close associates.

Just months after McRae’s death, Geoffrey Dickens MP spoke in the House of Commons about being put on a “killer’s hit list” due to his campaign to expose powerful paedophiles.
 
Election win should trigger Scottish independence, says Sturgeon
​

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Scotland could become independent if the SNP won a majority of votes in a UK election, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

The first minister wants a referendum in 2023, and is pushing for the Supreme Court to rule on a bill to set this up.

If this does not happen, she has said the SNP would treat the next general election as a "de facto referendum".

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said it was the government's "longstanding position" that it was not the right time for another independence vote.

He said: "We will look carefully at what [Nicola Sturgeon] says. Don't forget that the longstanding position is that we don't think this is the right time to be doing a constitutional change."

"I think our economy is all the stronger for being together," he added.

Mr Johnson continued: "This is a time really now to focus on things which the union can deliver for the economic benefit of everybody."

In an interview with BBC Scotland, the first minister said: "Scotland can't become independent without a majority of people voting for it".

She said: "I hope we can resolve these things in a referendum, that is the proper way of doing it. But if all routes to that are blocked then the general election will become the vehicle for people to express their view."

Ms Sturgeon said she wanted to be clear about the principle and the practical reality "that Scotland cannot become independent unless and until a majority of people in Scotland vote for independence".

She added: "The issue of practical reality is that when a majority vote for independence, I hope in a referendum, that will have to be followed by a negotiation with a UK government to implement that decision."

If there were to be a vote in favour of Scottish independence - whether that be via the referendum Ms Sturgeon wants, or a de facto referendum based on a general election result - it would be followed by negotiations between the Scottish and UK governments.

Then, legislation would have to be passed at Westminster and perhaps Holyrood before Scotland became independent.

Ms Sturgeon said on Tuesday that the UK Supreme Court had been asked to rule on whether the Scottish government has the power to hold an independence referendum without agreement from Westminster.

Ahead of the 2014 referendum, the UK government agreed to a temporary transfer of powers to Holyrood to allow the referendum to go ahead.

The idea of a "de facto referendum" is a radical one, given Nicola Sturgeon's reputation for caution and the fact her team had previously dismissed it as a strategy.

It raises many questions about how such a scheme would work, which ministers now find themselves talking about rather than their main plan - to hold an actual referendum.

After all, the first minister's hope is that the last resort will never be needed. Her wish is still to do a deal with the UK government which would see both sides sign up to an agreed process in the style of 2014.

Bold talk of using a general election instead is chiefly a tool to force the pro-UK side to take their fingers out of their ears and engage with the issue, rather than a finalised strategy to deliver independence.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-61980405
 
I do think it'll happen this time.

Scotland will probably do alright on their own - not great, but alright. Certainly better than my country Wales, for whom pursuing independence will be costly.
 
The 'de facto' referendum idea sounds like 'a majority SNP vote is a majority independence vote'. However due to the first past the post system the SNP has far more seats proportionally (48 / 59, 81%) than votes (45%). Also, all the major parties in Scotland other than the SNP are unionist, meaning that in the last general election about 55% of voters voted for the union, but the SNP was elected. So I strongly doubt that if they don't get a referendum, an SNP majority would lead to independence.
 
650lb Sumo said:
The 'de facto' referendum idea sounds like 'a majority SNP vote is a majority independence vote'. However due to the first past the post system the SNP has far more seats proportionally (48 / 59, 81%) than votes (45%). Also, all the major parties in Scotland other than the SNP are unionist, meaning that in the last general election about 55% of voters voted for the union, but the SNP was elected. So I strongly doubt that if they don't get a referendum, an SNP majority would lead to independence.
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But that logic cuts both ways everyone who doesn't vote SNP isn't for union even though the parties and a very large majority of their voters would be. While most of those voters would be pro union those parties have other reasons people vote for them and this is the sort of thing where every point matters.

The premise of ref is that Scottish independence ref was largely won on the promise of staying in the EU. This was so important because leaving the UK at the time meant leaving the EU and reapplying for membership which was a big pain in the ass. That whole dynamic is gone thus in theory meaning Scotties would gain a lot of ground and they only need to gain a few points to win.
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63727562

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon wants to hold a referendum on 19 October next year.

But the court ruled unanimously that she does not have the power to do so because the issue is reserved to Westminster.

The UK government has refused to grant formal consent for a referendum.

Court president Lord Reed said the laws that created the devolved Scottish Parliament in 1999 meant it did not have power over areas of the constitution including the union between Scotland and England.

These issues are the responsibility of the UK Parliament, he said, and in absence of an agreement between the two governments the Scottish Parliament is therefore unable to legislate for a referendum.
 
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