Does anyone else think crocop would smashed

Dbreiden83080 said:
In that era what exactly did he do that was so unbelievably spectacular that leads you to the conclusion that all-time great fighters like DC or Stipe can’t handle him in his supposed prime? To me CC getting smashed by the likes of JDS was no fluke. He gets beat up by JDS at any age. Gets grinded out by DC or Stipe at any age. 2007 he comes to the UFC with full expectations he’s going to win the championship. There was absolutely zero conversation about him being past his prime. Nostalgia is a blinding thing friend..
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In ring Cro Cop can beat anyone, including them. JDS's biggest asset during his career was dancing around people in big round space and controlling ins and outs. Cormier is the right customer for middle kick and liver pate, also the right height to eat HK like Wanderlei or Vovchanchyn, or to eat soccer kick or knee on the ground after sprawl. Take away elbows, wire fence from him and put him in ring, and CC can beat him. Also in ring striking CC can beat Stipe with multiple combinations of kicks and punches both low and high & in between. He has more standup weapons than him, especially in kickboxing pocket where hands and legs connect.
Cro Cop's main problem in cage was not beeing able to keep opponents in kickboxing pocket in front of him due to big round space.

Big round cage takes away main Cro Cop's weapon of connection bewtween LHK, middle kick and left straight where you allways leave something open to defent another beacuse in big space you can defend by movement, circling and distance, you don't have to worry about blocking anything, and you dont have to worry about all 3 strikes having the same starting move and first step where it is difficult to recognize which one is coming. Also the amount of energy and time he has to spend in fence pushing and walling in cage is incomparable to ring.

It is a matter of rules and where the fight takes place, and matter of two completely different forms of MMA with different rules and tradition.
You are trying to make uneven comparision between man who fought in different shapes of MMA, versus UFC stars who in vast majority did not; and who knows how would some UFC champion look like in some totally different RINGS or Pancrase rules.

Cro Cop lost to Gonzaga and Kongo mainly due to cage and change of rules. There would probably be no Gonzaga's kick without Gonzaga's circling on every Cro Cop's step that forced CC to constantly enter his power, in ring CC would corner him and cutt space, and without elbows. There would probably be no Kongo's win without big round space to throw from distance and without fence walling.

But post 2008 Cro Cop was cleary out of prime and shopworn, Overeem fight where he entered with braces on injured knees and had to go to surgery is the clear breaking point of his body. Also due to foot surgery he did not train most of the time between GP and spring of 2007.

Why would Cro Cop have to perform top in 100 pro fights, when UFC stars can't in 20.
Cain and JDS look nowhere as good in theri 30s.
If anything CC has the rightfull excuse because he was fighting every 2 months without rest for 10 years before he came to UFC, and that is incomparable to fighting twice per year.

Arguments of UFC diehards are mostly invalid, beacuse you are trying to bulid a case about generaly quality of PRIDE uppon fighter who was the most affected by change of rules, whom UFC rules and cage did not suite the most, and who has the biggest mileage of all.

Cro Cop had a lot of bad sports luck that you often need in sport. More than most of stars. He did not get his deserved shot for #1 place due to sudden dissapearance of organisation, had to go to rules where he can't fight the same, and had to start his entire status from 0 instead of fighting vs Couture sooner. You can maybe beat Werdum or JDS for title, but you can also lose to someone unkwnown and fresh & dangerous like Gagne, Pavlovich, Delija, Aspinall, Daukas in high risk-low low reward. Almost no other clear #1 contenders got additional obstacles inbetween their deserved shot in last 15 years, and they would not accept additional fights.
It is a matter of bad sports luck that Cro Cop did not face Fedor in 2007, or Nougiera rematch aferwards, like it should have been without unforseen totall disturbance by outside circumstances, and fough for a few more years in the ring.
 
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DayV said:
He bested everybody including Nog, Werdum, Overeem, Hunt, Alex Emelianenko... and became champion over all of them, like in any other sport, and most of sports have tournament format world championship. Paths are irrelevant, they all tryed & failed, Cro Cop won. Title means you are champion over all.

Wand was LHW goat who had Top 10 ranked HW win against Fujita just a fight earlier. Wanerlei was huge star at those years. You can see how much people wanna see Jones nowadays challenge for HW title, Wanderlei was the same thing.
Yoshida was good HW fighter who fluctuated between Top 10 and Top 15 HW in those years, especially good with GI allowed as weapon and 10 minute round, and Olympic gold medailist who had wins vs UFC and Rings HW champions and K-1 GP winner. Look how much is Lesnar hyped in US, Yoshida was no lesser star in no.1 MMA market at those times.

Minowa proved his danger and upest potential by beating dozen of Hws.
Beating Barnett was equal to any super elite win worthy of UFC title.

Pride Grand Prix 2006 was the strongest MMA competition in the world at that time, and Cro Cop won it.
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I'm not trying to downplay Cro Cop's achievements, just pointing out the fact that outside that OWGP everytime when Cro Cop had a chance to either establish himself as either a champion, number 1 contender or simply relevant in a thin division he failed. More than once and that's why I would still pick Stipe to beat a prime Mirko.
 
DayV said:
In ring Cro Cop can beat anyone, including them. JDS's biggest asset during his career was dancing around people in big round space and controlling ins and outs. Cormier is the right customer for middle kick and liver pate, also the right height to eat HK like Wanderlei or Vovchanchyn, or to eat soccer kick or knee on the ground after sprawl. Take away elbows, wire fence from him and put him in ring, and CC can beat him. Also in ring striking CC can beat Stipe with multiple combinations of kicks and punches both low and high & in between. He has more standup weapons than him, especially in kickboxing pocket where hands and legs connect.
Cro Cop's main problem in cage was not beeing able to keep opponents in kickboxing pocket in front of him due to big round space.

Big round cage takes away main Cro Cop's weapon of connection bewtween LHK, middle kick and left straight where you allways leave something open to defent another beacuse in big space you can defend by movement, circling and distance, you don't have to worry about blocking anything, and you dont have to worry about all 3 strikes having the same starting move and first step where it is difficult to recognize which one is coming. Also the amount of energy and time he has to spend in fence pushing and walling in cage is incomparable to ring.

It is a matter of rules and where the fight takes place, and matter of two completely different forms of MMA with different rules and tradition.
You are trying to make uneven comparision between man who fought in different shapes of MMA, versus UFC stars who in vast majority did not; and who knows how would some UFC champion look like in some totally different RINGS or Pancrase rules.

Cro Cop lost to Gonzaga and Kongo mainly due to cage and change of rules. There would probably be no Gonzaga's kick without Gonzaga's circling on every Cro Cop's step that forced CC to constantly enter his power, in ring CC would corner him and cutt space, and without elbows. There would probably be no Kongo's win without big round space to throw from distance and without fence walling.

But post 2008 Cro Cop was cleary out of prime and shopworn, Overeem fight where he entered with braces on injured knees and had to go to surgery is the clear breaking point of his body. Also due to foot surgery he did not train most of the time between GP and spring of 2007.

Why would Cro Cop have to perform top in 100 pro fights, when UFC stars can't in 20.
Cain and JDS look nowhere as good in theri 30s.
If anything CC has the rightfull excuse because he was fighting every 2 months without rest for 10 years before he came to UFC, and that is incomparable to fighting twice per year.

Arguments of UFC diehards are mostly invalid, beacuse you are trying to bulid a case about generaly quality of PRIDE uppon fighter who was the most affected by change of rules, whom UFC rules and cage did not suite the most, and who has the biggest mileage of all.

Cro Cop had a lot of bad sports luck that you often need in sport. More than most of stars. He did not get his deserved shot for #1 place due to sudden dissapearance of organisation, had to go to rules where he can't fight the same, and had to start his entire status from 0 instead of fighting vs Couture sooner. You can maybe beat Werdum or JDS for title, but you can also lose to someone unkwnown and fresh & dangerous like Gagne, Pavlovich, Delija, Aspinall, Daukas in high risk-low low reward. Almost no other clear #1 contenders got additional obstacles inbetween their deserved shot in last 15 years, and they would not accept additional fights.
It is a matter of bad sports luck that Cro Cop did not face Fedor in 2007, or Nougiera rematch aferwards, like it should have been without unforseen totall disturbance by outside circumstances, and fough for a few more years in the ring.
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Randleman, Hunt, Olenik, Nog, and Fedor have all beaten him in a rung.


Hes beaten 2-3 good HWs
 
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