For anyone that thinks Usman is above GSP already...

When I read this from @Fioretti "...One victory over Penn is widely seen as a robbery..." i was clear he is just a GSP troll hater.

That is simply an objectively false statement. You would only get a handful of BJ fanatics who would think it was robbery.

A robbery means they think the fight was not even close and GSP had no business getting his points from the Judges. They stole a clear and decisive win from BJ.

While a few commentators thought maybe BJ did enough, if the judges count damage (which the rules did not consider at the time) none were arguing it was a robbery.

Its pure trolling or ignorance to say that.
 
Mark McMichael said:
@pankrat I don't know what poll TS is speaking of but it sounds like they got it right.

Okami is a much lower version of Fitch who was much lower in a division that was also much weaker than WW during that time frame.

I would put Okami generally as hanging in and around the bottom of the Top 10 of MW generally with occasional pop ups with a key win, whereas Fitch was a perennial Top 3 along with ranked P4P for quite a while.
Click to expand...

Didnt you just discredit arguably the most recognized rankings that acknowledge Silva as p4p ranked above GSP all the way during their championship runs?

Now you use rankings to hype up Fitch eh hypocrite fanboy?

Okami has more ranked wins than Fitch, fact. So tell me about rankings.
Okami arguably beat better fighters and lost to better fighters in more competitive decisions too.
Absolutely comparable caliber of opponents Okami and Fitch in their primes and no doubt odds at the time would've attested for that


More dishonest pathetic display from the alt account Canadian fanboy:

Mark McMichael said:
I would put Okami generally as hanging in and around the bottom of the Top 10 of MW.
Click to expand...

2013 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-52775 - Okami #4

2012 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-40091 - Okami #3

2011 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-33703 - Okami #3

2010 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-28893 - Okami #3

2009 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-17131 - Okami #2

2008 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-15631 - Okami #4

<{you!}>

Do you see the pattern?

You pretend to deny Jones was much bigger relative to Silva than Silva was to GSP. You get slapped right

You even pretend to back it up with Soares. You get slapped left

You pretend GSP was ranked #1 p4p above Silva during their championship runs? You get slapped left

You pretend Okami was a bordeline top10 while Fitch was a top3? You get slapped right.

Turn your other cheek
 
Hughes was WW GOAT before GSP, no shame in losing to him at the time.

And don't forget when it was only GSP's 8th pro fight, and his 3rd fight in the UFC that he lost to Hughes.

Serra KO was an extremely rare occurrence. GSP dominantly avenged this loss to erase all doubt.

Usman has a long way to go to replicate the aura that GSP had in the division. GSP is still easily the GOAT for WW.
 
Mark McMichael said:
This entire topic is one of OPINION and not fact. P4P is made up BS.

It is ALL OPINION so yes I am posting opinion but so too are you.

Sherdog rankings are not based on fact nor are the UFC's. If you are dumb enough to argue they are explain how we see so many guys go from unranked to ranked simply by getting a big name fight and with no change in record.


Neither Jones nor Anderson are more accomplished fighters than GSP so take your BS elsewhere.

You may rank CERTAIN aspects higher, and that is your right, but GSP has his own list of accomplishments people who are not you can rank higher.

In fact that is exactly what GOAT analysis attempts to do and you will find GSP at the top of almost all GOAT lists so your view is a minority view.

You are clearly one of the 'Just Finish' zombie's that think nothing ranks higher when in fact little ranks lower. When GSP, Anderson and these guys are all no longer fighting GOAT talks will still prevail and Win/Loss, SoS and other categories will matter much more than finishes which tend to be over weighted by people who saw the fights live at the time and remember the thrill. Anderson will suffer as his overall record is much poorer and those discussing GOAT 20 years from now will not be saying 'ya his over all record is no where near as good... but finishes'.

it is not how things work currently amongst boxing greats with a much deeper history and it is not how it has been working in MMA, thus why Anderson has been falling down and down the GOAT list while GSP stays solidly at the top.
Click to expand...

That's a lot of dancing around, fella. Let's see those p4p rankings. Why are you stalling and misdirecting?

bbandito925 said:
can you explain why you are comparing GSP’s unique title to Usman’s unique title+non title fights?

sure gsp fanatics are annoying, but so are his weirdo hamisdirection?
Click to expand...

I was clarifying a pretty bullshit stat, and putting truth to it. Like this one:

GSP has 5 title fights against the same two guys, and lost 2 of those fights. Usman is 4-0 in title fights against 2 guys. Sorry, bud, this is not the route you want to take.
 
@Mark McMichael

I forgot to address your claim that Jones and Silva aren't more accomplished than GSP. Please list GSP's accomplishments and let's do a compare and contrast. He's nowhere close to either of them.
 
I am not interested in getting in tit for tat data posting as you are already hand waving away anything you don't like. I saw how you exposed yourself when I looked back in the thread and you wrote that gem above about GSP/Bj being a robbery.

Such utter garbage that no one who lives in reality is going to agree with you.

Nothing is more indicative of what you are asking for @Fioretti than the GOAT analysis and ranking.

GOAT is an assessment of CAREER accomplishments. You understand that right?
Do you know that? Will you acknowledge that?

GSP dominates in GOAT rankings but i am sure you will just hand wave that away. But lets test it. Do you acknowledge that he does?
 
pankrat said:
Didnt you just discredit arguably the most recognized rankings that acknowledge Silva as p4p ranked above GSP all the way during their championship runs?

Now you use rankings to hype up Fitch eh hypocrite fanboy?

Okami has more ranked wins than Fitch, fact. So tell me about rankings.
Okami arguably beat better fighters and lost to better fighters in more competitive decisions too.
Absolutely comparable caliber of opponents Okami and Fitch in their primes and no doubt odds at the time would've attested for that


More dishonest pathetic display from the alt account Canadian fanboy:



2013 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-52775 - Okami #4

2012 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-40091 - Okami #3

2011 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-33703 - Okami #3

2010 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-28893 - Okami #3

2009 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-17131 - Okami #2

2008 - https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/4/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-15631 - Okami #4

<{you!}>

Do you see the pattern?

You pretend to deny Jones was much bigger relative to Silva than Silva was to GSP. You get slapped right

You even pretend to back it up with Soares. You get slapped left

You pretend GSP was ranked #1 p4p above Silva during their championship runs? You get slapped left

You pretend Okami was a bordeline top10 while Fitch was a top3? You get slapped right.

Turn your other cheek
Click to expand...

Lol and you accused me of cherry picking dates.

Okami basically only got his #2 spot because Sonnen lost to Silva and Franklin moved to LHW.

He was basically #2 for 3-4 months against Fitch's 36 months.

This is not even a comparison.
 
ThunderStruck said:
Lol and you accused me of cherry picking dates.

Okami basically only got his #2 spot because Sonnen lost to Silva and Franklin moved to LHW.

He was basically #2 for 3-4 months against Fitch's 36 months.

This is not even a comparison.
Click to expand...

Shields got a top5 spot at WW thanks to beating Okami in a highly controversial decision that most observers had Okami winning.
Then Shields moved up to MW, leaving his top5 spot at WW.

You dont watch fights nor understand any context so you dont know, fanboy.

Okami was more tested vs top5 competition than Fitch. He beat more ranked contenders too.
The only reason why Fitch held the #2 spot is because he literally didnt test it vs any top ranked competition.


Fitch's most notable performances
Alves
Sanchez
Paulo Thiago
Pierce
Erick Silva
Burkman
Gono
....BJ controversial decision

Okami's most notable performances
Marquardt
Muñoz
Lombard
Tanner
Belcher
Swick
J. McDonald
....Shieds controversial decision.

The same untested #2 spot for Fitch you cowardly hide behind comes from the same source that credited Silva as the better fighter than GSP in p4p rankings. Cute.
 
pankrat said:
Shields got a top5 spot at WW thanks to beating Okami in a highly controversial decision that most observers had Okami winning.
Then Shields moved up to MW, leaving his top5 spot at WW.

You dont watch fights nor understand any context so you dont know, fanboy.

Okami was more tested vs top5 competition than Fitch. He beat more ranked contenders too.
The only reason why Fitch held the #2 spot is because he literally didnt test it vs any top ranked competition.


Fitch's most notable performances
Alves
Sanchez
Paulo Thiago
Pierce
Erick Silva
Burkman
Gono
....BJ controversial decision

Okami's most notable performances
Marquardt
Muñoz
Lombard
Tanner
Belcher
Swick
J. McDonald
....Shieds controversial decision.

The same untested #2 spot for Fitch you cowardly hide behind comes from the same source that credited Silva as the better fighter than GSP in p4p rankings. Cute.
Click to expand...

How convenient that you forgot Fitch win OVER OKAMI you dishonest loser.

An educated fan would know that Fitch's list of wins is more impressive.

You really wanna go into this again? You think repeating your bullshit will do the trick this time? ROFL. Go see the poll and watch the result.
 
ThunderStruck said:
How convenient that you forgot Fitch win OVER OKAMI you dishonest loser.

An educated fan would know that Fitch's list of wins is more impressive.

You really wanna go into this again? You think repeating your bullshit will do the trick this time? ROFL. Go see the poll and watch the result.
Click to expand...

Talk about dishonest:

> Fitch literally got suspended for PEDs that same year.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2015...-wsof-16-drug-test-faces-fines-and-suspension

> Even despite of that, Fitch looking as shredded as ever at his 40s and Okami moving down a weightclass and cleaely out of prime in a losing skid....
Okami was still the favoutite :eek::eek:
https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

Odds during Fitch/Okami prime would have LAUGH at your statement that Fitch was on a way superior caliber

> You dont watch fight so listen: Okami took the 1st round and the PED convicted that same year Fitch only started to take over by superior conditioning over the washed up Yushin

Talk about dishonest, ignorant fanboy
 
pankrat said:
Shields got a top5 spot at WW thanks to beating Okami in a highly controversial decision that most observers had Okami winning.
Then Shields moved up to MW, leaving his top5 spot at WW.

You dont watch fights nor understand any context so you dont know, fanboy.

Okami was more tested vs top5 competition than Fitch. He beat more ranked contenders too.
The only reason why Fitch held the #2 spot is because he literally didnt test it vs any top ranked competition.


Fitch's most notable performances
Alves
Sanchez
Paulo Thiago
Pierce
Erick Silva
Burkman
Gono
....BJ controversial decision

Okami's most notable performances
Marquardt
Muñoz
Lombard
Tanner
Belcher
Swick
J. McDonald
....Shieds controversial decision.

The same untested #2 spot for Fitch you cowardly hide behind comes from the same source that credited Silva as the better fighter than GSP in p4p rankings. Cute.
Click to expand...

https://www.fightmatrix.com/fighter-profile/Jake+Shields/494/

Shields takes a top5 spot at WW after beating Okami.
Commentators and American people in attendance booed the decision in favour of the American fighter. Large most observers saw Okami as the superior fighter who also did more damage by a large margin.

You dont watch fights - other than your blue-eyed idol I guess - nor understand any context. You can only try to look shit in Google.

Okami had as much of a case for the W in this fight than Fitch had in his split decisio vs Sanchez. The only ranked win Fitch had when he fought GSP for the tittle in the allegedly "much stronger" WW division.
Ánimo

Here you have that got Shields his top5 spot by FightMatrix, not far from a robbery:

https://mmacore.tv/videos/Jake_Shields_vs_Yushin_Okami/10009131
 
Mark McMichael said:
I am not interested in getting in tit for tat data posting as you are already hand waving away anything you don't like. I saw how you exposed yourself when I looked back in the thread and you wrote that gem above about GSP/Bj being a robbery.

Such utter garbage that no one who lives in reality is going to agree with you.

Nothing is more indicative of what you are asking for @Fioretti than the GOAT analysis and ranking.

GOAT is an assessment of CAREER accomplishments. You understand that right?
Do you know that? Will you acknowledge that?

GSP dominates in GOAT rankings but i am sure you will just hand wave that away. But lets test it. Do you acknowledge that he does?
Click to expand...

You're "not interested in getting in tit for tat data posting", but you proceed to write paragraphs of bullshit about how an internet poll is proof that GSP's accomplishments are greater than both Jones' and Silva's?? Lol, bro. That is some pathetic, weak ass shit. Yeah, let's not look at objective facts and documented history, but instead just reference the most subjective and unreliable source imaginable: an internet popularity poll on a karate forum where the majority of the votes for your hero is from brand new alt accounts, like yours, that were made for the sole purpose of voting for GSP to sway the poll.

Fuckin classic.
 
Fergelmince said:
Goats don't fear the next weight class up.

hqdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

Retired as middleweight champ
 
pankrat said:
Talk about dishonest:

> Fitch literally got suspended for PEDs that same year.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2015...-wsof-16-drug-test-faces-fines-and-suspension

> Even despite of that, Fitch looking as shredded as ever at his 40s and Okami moving down a weightclass and cleaely out of prime in a losing skid....
Okami was still the favoutite :eek::eek:
https://www.bestfightodds.com/events/wsof-24-fitch-vs-okami-998

Odds during Fitch/Okami prime would have LAUGH at your statement that Fitch was on a way superior caliber

> You dont watch fight so listen: Okami took the 1st round and the PED convicted that same year Fitch only started to take over by superior conditioning over the washed up Yushin

Talk about dishonest, ignorant fanboy
Click to expand...

WE got through this already and you know it.

1. Fitch is older than Okami so spare me the "out of prime okami" bullshit.

2. Fitch getting busted means he didn't take the risk to juice.

3. Rofl about your odds. Thats pathetic. Thats all you got. "My fighter lost but man the odds! the odds!" Completely subjective gibberish.

4. Okami was way more shredded than Fitch for that fight and almost twice as big, still lost.

5. Why am i even arguing with someone who don't even know how weight cutting works. You were so exposed today.
 
@Fioretti do you want to bet that rankings are not object fact and you are spewing pure garbage?

I bet you don't take that bet.

I am not just talking about the GOAT poll. I am talking about more than a decade of analysis by MMA pundits and articles and fighter rankings.

Do you not understand what they are looking at when they do the work to consider who is GOAT? It is exactly what you say you want to review.

But you want to ignore all the MMA pundits and fighters and others as you know they don't agree with you. Instead you want to build your case, I build mine, we both declare 'I am right', 'no you are wrong' and not one fucking thing changes.

I am certainly not going to convince you if you think BJ won the first GSP fight in what was a Steal or blow out win for BJ. You are not reality based.

What I have is the facts. The fact that everyone not bringing a bias to this and who assesses GOAT will overwhelmingly pick GSP over Anderson and Jones and its not even close. GSP will have many more votes.

You have one reply and that is to try and ignore them and make it about us so you can feel equal. You are not equal. It is not up to debate.
 
Mark McMichael said:
@Fioretti do you want to bet that rankings are not object fact and you are spewing pure garbage?

I bet you don't take that bet.

I am not just talking about the GOAT poll. I am talking about more than a decade of analysis by MMA pundits and articles and fighter rankings.

Do you not understand what they are looking at when they do the work to consider who is GOAT? It is exactly what you say you want to review.

But you want to ignore all the MMA pundits and fighters and others as you know they don't agree with you. Instead you want to build your case, I build mine, we both declare 'I am right', 'no you are wrong' and not one fucking thing changes.

I am certainly not going to convince you if you think BJ won the first GSP fight in what was a Steal or blow out win for BJ. You are not reality based.

What I have is the facts. The fact that everyone not bringing a bias to this and who assesses GOAT will overwhelmingly pick GSP over Anderson and Jones and its not even close. GSP will have many more votes.

You have one reply and that is to try and ignore them and make it about us so you can feel equal. You are not equal. It is not up to debate.
Click to expand...

List some facts, kidd-o. Been waiting. Show me all of GSP's accomplishments. Just make a list. You can do it, buddy.
 
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