Gordon Ryan vs Felipe Pena

[mattemate]

You completely missed the point lol, it's about the mentality/personality

No shit Gordon could never make it in the NBA, he isn't a top 0.001% athlete like Jordan was, but their mentalities are very similar

I didn't miss the point. He's not the same mentally OR physically. Jordan was super competitive, but he wasn't a dick, he didn't gloat in victory. He let his wins speak for themselves.

Did I express that? No. Your fault for not being better at reading between the lines. The physical follows the mental.

Try to be a better poster.

 

[HunterAcosta]

How about looking at it from the perspective of, why would he want to go into MMA if hes getting rich not getting punched in the head ?

Ive no idea why its a criticism , as if you are nothing if you dont step into a cage for an MMA fight.


Not everyone wants to get concussions and their face smashed in. It doesnt make them a coward.

Chito Vera said on Rogans podcast that he trains with Mendes Bros and that Rafa can do what he wants with him , even in mma g and p sparring . He said he can’t do anything to him whether top or bottom .

 

[mattemate]

Chito Vera said on Rogans podcast that he trains with Mendes Bros and that Rafa can do what he wants with him , even in mma g and p sparring . He said he can’t do anything to him whether top or bottom .

I'll just leave this here.

 

[HunterAcosta]

I'll just leave this here.

Yeah I don’t doubt that Chito murks Rafa in mma fight barring it going to ground .

 

[mattemate]

Yeah I don’t doubt that Chito murks Rafa in mma fight barring it going to ground .

Nor do I, but in that general weight class there are plenty of guys that could. What's he going to do to someone like DJ or Cejudo?

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I'll just leave this here.

I remember, not so long ago, going back to watch this a few times when I read about Roger's antics before leaving Brazil.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

True, but greatness comes in different forms. If Michael Jordan was a 2nd tier player and acted the way he did... everyone would've hated him, but since he was the best, people kinda accept him for what he is.

I cringe seeing his name next to Jordan

I get it, he may be the GOAT nogi grappler, but his name shouldn't be next to Jordan, it is just not right! I wouldn't put Floyd next to Jordan, never mind Gordon fucking Ryan lol

BJJ just isn't that level, or even close

Jordan is an icon like Ali, Tiger Woods, Maradona, Usain Bolt, etc

I get the comparison but maybe he would be best compared to another niche sport. Nobody outside of Grappling or hardcore MMA knows him

 

[mattemate]

I remember, not so long ago, going back to watch this a few times when I read about Roger's antics before leaving Brazil.

His antics? Such as? He always struck me as really level headed, but most people have done at least a few dumb things in their youth.

I cringe seeing his name next to Jordan

I get it, he may be the GOAT nogi grappler, but his name shouldn't be next to Jordan, it is just not right! I wouldn't put Floyd next to Jordan, never mind Gordon fucking Ryan lol

BJJ just isn't that level, or even close

Jordan is an icon like Ali, Tiger Woods, Maradona, Usain Bolt, etc

I get the comparison but maybe he would be best compared to another niche sport. Nobody outside of Grappling or hardcore MMA knows him

Yeah, that's the exact point I was trying to make. Almost every American boy and a hell of a lot of girls played basketball growing up, in pick up games if not organized. Then you consider Europe, Asia, all over the world how many people have played the game. And Jordan is probably the best, even those that don't think so would put him in their top 5. Out of tens of millions of people that have played the sport. Once tens of millions of people have done jiu-jitsu, no gi grappling, whatever, THEN we will begin to have our Jordans, our Birds, our Wilts, etc. Gordon will be more like a Dennis Rodman type eventually.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

His antics? Such as? He always struck me as really level headed, but most people have done at least a few dumb things in their youth.



Yeah, that's the exact point I was trying to make. Almost every American boy and a hell of a lot of girls played basketball growing up, in pick up games if not organized. Then you consider Europe, Asia, all over the world how many people have played the game. And Jordan is probably the best, even those that don't think so would put him in their top 5. Out of tens of millions of people that have played the sport. Once tens of millions of people have done jiu-jitsu, no gi grappling, whatever, THEN we will begin to have our Jordans, our Birds, our Wilts, etc. Gordon will be more like a Dennis Rodman type eventually.

Football/soccer has billions of kids that's played it. The talent pool is much greater due to the participation

Nearly Everyone I know has played football to some degree. I know semi pro players that look amazing, but really in the grand scheme of things they are way down the pecking order

 

[Solidus Snake]

I'm curious about "Roger's antics" as well. What was that?

 

[randomg1t]

Chito Vera said on Rogans podcast that he trains with Mendes Bros and that Rafa can do what he wants with him , even in mma g and p sparring . He said he can’t do anything to him whether top or bottom .

and it makes sense. there's a 20min clip of rafa rolling with jake shields, and it takes him like 6 minutes to catch jake the first time, then he submits him 2 or 3 more times in a couple of minutes. jake shields, who is himself a world class grappler and has like 40 pounds on rafa.

there's still a difference between doing jiu jitsu with punches and being in a fight, though. i'm pretty sure gordon would be tearing fools apart if he got them to the mat, but anyone who can wrestle and box worth a fuck would be keeping it standing and looking to knock him out. the problem with being so incredibly good at jiu jitsu in MMA is that nobody will want to do it with you.

 

[Coconutwater]

True, but greatness comes in different forms. If Michael Jordan was a 2nd tier player and acted the way he did... everyone would've hated him, but since he was the best, people kinda accept him for what he is.

I know what you’re saying, but look at guys with better accomplishments, Roger, Marcelo, or Buchecha etc..

These guys have done MORE than Gordon, even when they were climbing up the ranks, and all managed to be cool headed and not get into teenage drama.

Gordon acts like a 14 year old girl and always on social media complaining about who slighted him, it’s so childish for someone over 18 to do that

Nobody is saying Gordon isn’t an elite no-gi grappler.

 

[Kevza]

Maybe alot of these BJJ guys in the past got into MMA to try and make more money. I mean look at the pathetic prize money people get for winning world championships .

Gordon Ryan has pretty much taken earning power to another level. He doesnt have to rely on opening a school and having 200 students for income.

So, again, i go to the point, that, why would he need to do MMA unless he had a burning desire to hold a UFC title or something.

He obviously doesnt.

Weird for Pena to talk about MMA when neither of them are MMA fighters. I find it interesting that no one is bringing that up, or does everyone feel a grappling feud needs to have a fist fight to be a legit win?

 

[HunterAcosta]

Maybe alot of these BJJ guys in the past got into MMA to try and make more money. I mean look at the pathetic prize money people get for winning world championships .

Gordon Ryan has pretty much taken earning power to another level. He doesnt have to rely on opening a school and having 200 students for income.

So, again, i go to the point, that, why would he need to do MMA unless he had a burning desire to hold a UFC title or something.

He obviously doesnt.

Weird for Pena to talk about MMA when neither of them are MMA fighters. I find it interesting that no one is bringing that up, or does everyone feel a grappling feud needs to have a fist fight to be a legit win?

It’s fairly common I heard in Brazil in Bjj , when someone gets murked in grappling , to say “ but yeah In mma or street itd be different .” Marcelo apparently had a lot of guys say that about him after he destroyed em and he was/is the nicest guy ever.

 

[Solidus Snake]

Maybe alot of these BJJ guys in the past got into MMA to try and make more money. I mean look at the pathetic prize money people get for winning world championships .

Gordon Ryan has pretty much taken earning power to another level. He doesnt have to rely on opening a school and having 200 students for income.

So, again, i go to the point, that, why would he need to do MMA unless he had a burning desire to hold a UFC title or something.

He obviously doesnt.

Weird for Pena to talk about MMA when neither of them are MMA fighters. I find it interesting that no one is bringing that up, or does everyone feel a grappling feud needs to have a fist fight to be a legit win?

Well Gordon expressed at least some interest in doing MMA years ago. I guess in the level of trash talk he brings to the table where pretty much everything goes I don't see it this absurd for Pena to bring it up in his own way. I agree he doesn't need to do it but that's not the point I guess.

It’s fairly common I heard in Brazil in Bjj , when someone gets murked in grappling , to say “ but yeah In mma or street itd be different .” Marcelo apparently had a lot of guys say that about him after he destroyed em and he was/is the nicest guy ever.

Besides Brazil and brazilians, it's kind of what we generally all do from to time anyway when we talk about grappling, isn't it? "This wouldn't work in MMA", "this is too removed from the streets and self defense", "you'd be better train stand up" and so on and on.. for as much as grappling became his own thing we constantly think about the efficiency of the arts in the street or in the cage.

 

[Nnedd]

...

So, again, i go to the point, that, why would he need to do MMA unless he had a burning desire to hold a UFC title or something.

He obviously doesnt....

It seems to me like he's interested in competing in the style that he is arguably the best in the world at, and nothing else. He doesn't compete in gi, he doesn't compete in mma, he sticks to no gi submission grappling, and he is seemingly untouchable in it.

And I don't think anything is wrong with that, as you say. The world is full of "Yeah, but..." commentary, and that won't change. He dominates his field and seems satisfied with that, no reason to move beyond it unless he wants to do it for himself.

There is a whole slew of people who would be eccstatic and proud to be in his position, who are more than willing to criticize him for whatever. His distasteful persona probably has a fair amount to do with that.

 

[Kforcer]

and it makes sense. there's a 20min clip of rafa rolling with jake shields, and it takes him like 6 minutes to catch jake the first time, then he submits him 2 or 3 more times in a couple of minutes. jake shields, who is himself a world class grappler and has like 40 pounds on rafa.

there's still a difference between doing jiu jitsu with punches and being in a fight, though. i'm pretty sure gordon would be tearing fools apart if he got them to the mat, but anyone who can wrestle and box worth a fuck would be keeping it standing and looking to knock him out. the problem with being so incredibly good at jiu jitsu in MMA is that nobody will want to do it with you.

True. But it is tough to wrestle from a completely defensive posture. That's part of why guys like Royler and Nogueira were able to score takedowns on people with strong wrestling and takedown defense; their opposition's wrestling was entirely defensive.

 

[AZ103]

True. But it is tough to wrestle from a completely defensive posture. That's part of why guys like Royler and Nogueira were able to score takedowns on people with strong wrestling and takedown defense; their opposition's wrestling was entirely defensive.

That's an interesting take and runs counter to the current popular narrative: it is hard to take down someone who is stalling/refusing to engage

 

[Bluesbreaker]

His antics? Such as? He always struck me as really level headed, but most people have done at least a few dumb things in their youth.



Yeah, that's the exact point I was trying to make. Almost every American boy and a hell of a lot of girls played basketball growing up, in pick up games if not organized. Then you consider Europe, Asia, all over the world how many people have played the game. And Jordan is probably the best, even those that don't think so would put him in their top 5. Out of tens of millions of people that have played the sport. Once tens of millions of people have done jiu-jitsu, no gi grappling, whatever, THEN we will begin to have our Jordans, our Birds, our Wilts, etc. Gordon will be more like a Dennis Rodman type eventually.

I'm curious about "Roger's antics" as well. What was that?

I don't remember where I read it, but it may have been this article.

https://bjj-world.com/gracie-family-brawls/

I agree that he seemed gentle as an adult. Having said that, I've done silly things as a young man, but I was the only victim. I can't imagine ever doing something hateful.

 

[Kforcer]

That's an interesting take and runs counter to the current popular narrative: it is hard to take down someone who is stalling/refusing to engage

I think it depends on the amount of time we're talking about, for one thing. I think initially, someone who's just looking to block takedowns is going to be harder to takedown, but is more likely to be eventually taken down by a persistent opponent. The amount of space is also a factor.

To me the problem is when you're so worried about getting taken down that you're not really engaging, even perhaps in striking, if it is MMA, and thus giving your opponent unlimited time to eventually find a takedown.