International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[sangreporsangre]

 

[HereticBD]

to be fair, at some point, this conflict needs to stop, and I've lost track, is there an underlying goal that Net is trying to accomplish?

Total annihilation of Hamas, and Israel extending it's borders. It's an old fashioned siege and takeover.

 

[sangreporsangre]

Wasn't this guy supposed to be some kind of human rights lawyer?

 

[Hog-train]

1. The IDF is using surgical strikes to minimize civilian deaths

The IDF is not doing surgical strikes. That is completely laughable. The current policy is that the IDF allows a few hundred civilians dead compared to getting 1 Hamas member.

 

[Rational Poster]

The IDF is not doing surgical strikes. That is completely laughable. The current policy is that the IDF allows a few hundred civilians dead compared to getting 1 Hamas member.

Well, even if we use this standard that you just made up, they're failing to achieve that by a lot.

Based on reported casualties and estimated militants killed the ratio is somewhere between 1:1.2 and 1:2.6

This laughable and arbitrary standard you just made up only begins to makes sense if you actually believe 0 militants have been killed.

 

[kflo]

Well, even if we use this standard that you just made up, they're failing to achieve that by a lot.

Based on reported casualties and estimated militants killed the ratio is somewhere between 1:1.2 and 1:2.6

This laughable and arbitrary standard you just made up only begins to makes sense if you actually believe 0 militants have been killed.

In fairness a pro Palestinian source quoted an anonymous source who confirmed…..

 

[Hog-train]

Well, even if we use this standard that you just made up, they're failing to achieve that by a lot.

Based on reported casualties and estimated militants killed the ratio is somewhere between 1:1.2 and 1:2.6

This laughable and arbitrary standard you just made up only begins to makes sense if you actually believe 0 militants have been killed.

I got that info from an investigative journalist from a Hebrew language publication.

Also where is your proof that the reported casualties vs militants is 1:1.2? Just the IDF saying that? How could they even possibly know if they're just bombing a building?

Israel targets infrastructure in Gaza to ramp up civilian pressure on Hamas, report claims

An investigative report says Israel is deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure in Gaza to ramp up "civilian pressure" on Hamas. The reporting by the independent +972 Magazine and the Hebrew-language outlet Local Call includes interviews with several current and former sources in Israel's...

www.pbs.org

 

[Rational Poster]

I got that info from an investigative journalist from Hebrew language publication.

Also where is your proof that the reported casualties vs militants is 1:1.2? Just the IDF saying that? How could they even possibly know if they're just bombing a building?

Israel targets infrastructure in Gaza to ramp up civilian pressure on Hamas, report claims

An investigative report says Israel is deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure in Gaza to ramp up "civilian pressure" on Hamas. The reporting by the independent +972 Magazine and the Hebrew-language outlet Local Call includes interviews with several current and former sources in Israel's...

www.pbs.org

How many militants do you think have been killed? 100? 1000? 2000? 5000?

 

[Hog-train]

How many militants do you think have been killed? 100? 1000? 2000? 5000?

You just sidestepped my question with a question.

You're claiming the Hamas to civilian casualty rate is 1:1.2 or 1.6. Where is a verifiable source for this? How could they possibly know?

 

[iwannabeadored]

Well, at least Hamas weren't starving their citizens like the North Korean government. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

The insane mental gymnastics you have to do here to make comparisons like this;

You jump from Hamas to the the gazan citizens when it suits you.

 

[DEVILsSON]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html

"Israel military says 2 civilians killed for every Hamas militant is a ‘tremendously positive’ ratio given combat challenges"

 

[Rational Poster]

You just sidestepped my question with a question.

You're claiming the Hamas to civilian casualty rate is 1:1.2 or 1.6. Where is a verifiable source for this? How could they possibly know?

We don't need a source for this, we can just do the math ourselves. How could anyone possibly know the full truth at this point? We can only guess. Israel estimates over 9,000 are militants. I think that's fair given the total number of strikes and reported deaths. It could be a bit more and it could be a bit less. I think a fair estimate at this point is somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 militants have been killed. Perhaps even as many as 11,000, I doubt we'll ever truly know how many die down in their tunnels.

Do you believe the reported 25,000 death toll figure? How many do you think are militants?

Also my claim was between 1.2 to 2.6 civilians killed per militant. The IDF obviously would have a much better idea of things since they access to one of the advanced military intelligence networks in human history. Drones and satellite surveillance, human intelligence on the ground, radio and other electronic surveillance, etc

 

[sangreporsangre]

This Australian is a special kind of evil. But of course one would have to be to do his job.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I think you are OK with killing tens of thousands of civilians, mostly children.

Give it a rest. This is the weakest toolbag bullshit that keeps going around in this thread.

 

[Hog-train]

We don't need a source for this, we can just do the math ourselves. How could anyone possibly know the full truth at this point? We can only guess. Israel estimates over 9,000 are militants. I think that's fair given the total number of strikes and reported deaths. It could be a bit more and it could be a bit less. I think a fair estimate at this point is somewhere between 7,000 and 10,000 militants have been killed. Perhaps even as many as 11,000, I doubt we'll ever truly know how many die down in their tunnels.

Do you believe the reported 25,000 death toll figure? How many do you think are militants?

Also my claim was between 1.2 to 2.6 civilians killed per militant. The IDF obviously would have a much better idea of things since they access to one of the advanced military intelligence networks in human history. Drones and satellite surveillance, human intelligence on the ground, radio and other electronic surveillance, etc

So your source is the IDF saying "trust us."

 

[Rational Poster]

So your source is the IDF saying "trust us."

How many do you think have been killed if you don't trust the IDF?

Also, I didn't say to trust the IDF, I provided a range that was both higher and lower than IDF estimates.

 

[Hog-train]

How many do you think have been killed if you don't trust the IDF?

I don't know, but I certainly do not believe the IDF. They have every reason in the world to be deceitful and have lied repeatedly in the past.

If they bombed a building, how could they possibly even know how many militants were killed? There's no way to really tell.

Believing the IDF is akin to believing George Bush "They hate us for our freedom!"

 

[Rational Poster]

I don't know, but I certainly do not believe the IDF. They have every reason in the world to be deceitful and have lied repeatedly in the past.

If they bombed a building, how could they possibly even know how many militants were killed? There's no way to really tell.

Believing the IDF is akin to believing George Bush "They hate us for our freedom!"

Okay so don't believe the IDF estimate, how many would you guess? Do you think it's significantly more or less than IDF estimates?

Are you unwilling to even guess?

 

[PhitePhan]

You want to tell us when the blockade started? Nevermind, I’ll do that for you. It started after Gaza elected Hamas - an internationally recognized terrorist organization committed to the destruction of Israel as their government. It’s like what you’re REALLY mad about here is how those rascally jooz just won’t allow themselves to be murdered.

Do you think most Palestinians knew Hamas was supported by Israel initially and over the years as a means to sow division? This is documented fact… I’d imagine if Palestinians knew this fact, they may not have voted for them. What do you think?

 

[Rational Poster]

Do you think most Palestinians knew Hamas was supported by Israel initially and over the years as a means to sow division? This is documented fact… I’d imagine if Palestinians knew this fact, they may not have voted for them. What do you think?

This is fan fiction.

Israel tried to stop elections all together because they knew Hamas would get elected. International pressure (Bush admin) forced them to hold elections.