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They all clearly hurt his legs, though. He didn't get stopped or wobbled by them, but they clearly effected him when they landed.
Holloway can't be hurt by leg kicks, it seems
- Thread starter Shay Brennan
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They all clearly hurt his legs, though. He didn't get stopped or wobbled by them, but they clearly effected him when they landed.
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This is important context missing from the original post.
JG didn't really get off a lot of meaningful leg kicks, Max was a master of distance in that fight and had overall better fight IQ.
Against Yair, he was getting hurt. Completely different scenario. If Max didn't mix in grappling, that may have been a TKO loss.
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I think you are intentionally reading the stats wrong for some reason:
re: Justin outlanded Yair’s 2 worst rounds against Max (rounds 3 and 4). But that’s very minor.
There was a single Justin round where landed more than 20 strikes (35), while Yair had four (37/42/24/36). Justin had 12 strikes in the first round, 18 in the last round; Yair had 37 in the first round (triple), 36 in the last round (double), so he started more effective and he ended more effective.
Yair was surprising Max way more often than Justin because he is so wild and unpredictable with an unlimited arsenal of techniques to try if not being pressured. Justin hits way harder but has a very predictable rhythm and looks to land the same strikes off the same set-ups.
Max arguably won the 2nd fight against Volk. He clearly lost the 1st & 3rd. Also minor.
You said that the most damage Max took in other fights was DP 2 and Volk 1, but Volk 3 is where he got his ass-kicked and lost every round, with a massive gash on his face early. The first fight he got out-pointed with a lot of leg kicks and movement if my recollection serves me right, so definitely don't think he took more damage - UFC stats show Volk landed 157 in the first fight, 199 in the third (25% more) and just looking at their faces after each fight shows it (though Max hides damage well).
The only fight in which leg kicks played a major role was the 1st fight with Volk. Max arguably won the 2nd and Volk’s gameplan in the 3rd fight is still going over heads …
Agree to disagree, to me Yair was tearing up Max on all levels with kicks and Max was like "fuck this shit" and just pressured/clinched/wrestled/beat the piss out of him up close and personal when he could. But it eventually wore on him to fight like that because he normally doesn't really wrestle/grapple for extended periods and he was in a real dog-fight late in that fight because of it.
Biggest reason why Gaethje was losing out of the gate; bigger than the broken nose & eye pokes, was that Max is much more beatable when you make him come to you.
That's a very good point, Max had a great game plan of drawing Justin to him where he is so predictable with his overhand right and lead low kick (thrown with almost no set-up typically).
That being said - it looks like the tactic of throwing spinning jumping back kicks when Justin ducks into a shell-guard was the brilliant technique/tactic that turned the fight in his favor to the point where it highly limited Justin's ability to take damage (which completely compromises how he fights - if he can't take the initial damage to land his own then he turns into a dumb brawler, which is how the fight ended).
It goes over heads because you have to be elite to utilize this gameplan. Ortega at the time he fought Max, for example, wasn’t at the level; thus Max looked great coming forward. But Gaethje could’ve fought much better and Ilia should fight much better, if they make Max come to them. Volk’s 3rd fight is still relevant. The Gaethje that jabbed Fiziev to death in the latter rounds, could’ve done much better circling & jabbing. Ilia looks to have the necessary footwork (and Gaethje showed it against Khabib & Fiziev).
Ortega is nowhere near the technical striker to be able to pull off a stand-up fight with Max, that was suicide from the get-go.
Gaethje doesn't know how to jab until late in fights, it's kind of his achilles heel - without it he just has a low-kick with almost no set-up from range, so he has limited weapons to draw an opponent to him. But he's a lot like Poirer, late in their careers they became really solid back-foot counter fighters. Very unrefined approach when leading though, especially early in the fight neither guy wants to just touch guys like Max, it has to be all power all the ,time (especially Justin).
Max isn’t as susceptible to leg kicks as people think. He showed in the 2nd fight with Volk, that he can shorten his stance, check, and has unreal toughness. But where Max is still vulnerable is building off his jab if you have great footwork, a great jab, and he has to respect your leg kicks (fight with a narrow stance). Gaethje was coming forward too much and trying to extend the exchanges. Ilia has the tools to make this very competitive by making Max come to him & circling, jabbing, and forcing Max to adopt a narrow stance. (I’m a huge Max fan btw).
I don't think anyone ever felt he was super-suspestible to leg kicks; out of all the prior fights he was in he got mostly out-pointed early (later slightly crippled) by Volk's low kicks and then Yair was kicking him legs/body/head non-stop like a mule for 2 rounds so he took the easiest route to beating his ass.
Out of these 3 fighters (Volk/Yair/Justin) I'd say Justin has the hardest leg kicks by far, but he's also kind of the worst at setting them up by far. Volk is very fast and incredibly crafty, tons of feints and throwaway strikes to land them, with good defense and pocket exits to not get countered. Yair is every faster and despite not being as good with the reads and set-ups as Volk can just overwhelm guys with the insane speed and diversity of techniques. Justin is far slower than both those guys and it's like the same telegraphed step-in low calf kick, so Max can utilize a lot of defenses when he knows the timing/technique/target area.
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I haven't re-watched that fight in ages (such a great fight though, really should).
I said that this was the closest thing I have ever seen Max do to "panic-wrestle" i.e. force the fight into wrestling/grappling exchanges. He used more judo than wrestling but the goal was the same, minimize the risk because Yair was doing a ton of damage and making it competitive standing to the point where it was too even for Max's liking.
It's why Max is a smart fighter and an absolute legend and Yair is just an hyper-athletic action-fighter with low fight-IQ.
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Last time he has been hurt by leg kicks was the first fight against VOLK. He has improved since then.
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Yeah, I haven’t rewatched Max vs Volk 3; because I was so disappointed. It’s not surprising I didn’t notice the damage Max was taking because I was pulling for Max to finally start landing and it never happened. Must’ve subconsciously downplayed Volk’s strikes because I wanted Max to change the course of the fight.
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Speed and timing is how to fight Max
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You can train to be better at checking the kicks
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Yeah that's a tough one to watch if you are a Max fan - he gets hurt and cut early, affects his vision and gets him emotional so he pressures Volk relentlessly giving him all the reads/set-ups for the rest of the fight.
Then it's like the harder he tries to get it back the more Volk pieces him up; really shows you that if you want to pressure elite counter-strikers it has to be done with a lot of nuance, otherwise you just walk yourself into a buzzsaw.
