How did Sakuraba beat Rampage, Vitor if it took him 1 hour to beat Royce?

[Migdagen]

I remember those days. Rampage was green. He lost but gave a lot of trouble to Sakuraba. Vitor dominating at the beggining but his cardio failled him (out of supplement?). Also I think he was in a "dark" moment of his life. Isn't this around the time his sister got abducted? Could be wrong there...

The Rampage that joined the UFC and TRT Vitor would have destroyed Sakuraba tbh.

And as for Royce, he probably simply had a good night. Sakuraba >> Royce.

Btw, while Sakuraba is from the first gen of MMA fighther, he was an evolution vs other fighters. He was the first to do it all. We had to wait on GSP for the next evolution.
Much respect for Sakuraba.

 

[gono btw]

Because those are 2 Pride fights suspected of being fixed.

Rampage admits he was offered extra money to lose but not win, and Vitor just fought very weird.

About the Rampage case, this is what he stated afterwards:

"I remember my stomach feeling like I swallowed a brick," Jackson recalled in 2007. "I still, to this day, think that somebody poisoned my room service or something like that. I was happy that it was my biggest paycheck to date, but I know Pride brought me there to lose. They made me lose all this weight when Pride didn't even have weight classes. I knew there was no way I could win. But I knew I couldn't turn back and not fight. I said, 'I've got to go out there and put on the best show possible and do my best so I could at least make a name for myself and Pride would have me back.'

“The UFC treats me better than Pride. I don't know what their [PRIDE] problem was but they wouldn't promote me at all, they cheated me out of money from dolls and t-shirts, not paying me... when my contract was up and we were negotiating and I wanted more money and they were telling me ‘oh, but you're a nobody.' This was after I had fought in the Grand Prix and beat Igor Vovchanchyn.”

“Even after I went to that K-1 fight and represented them in K-1, they were mad I won that K-1 fight! Just stuff like that... Igor Vovchanchyn, I got two weeks notice [for the fight]. Ninja, two weeks notice. It was bad. The tournaments were fixed. They said they drew numbers from a hat. It was all set up for Wanderlei to win. It was really bad. Even in some fights they would stand you up when you were winning, different stuff like that.”

About the Bonus from Pride: not to tap.

Vitor’s sister had been kidnapped right? No wonder he wasn’t in his mind wasn’t in that fight

That kidnappin´ was later, tho...

 

[gono btw]

I remember those days. Rampage was green. He lost but gave a lot of trouble to Sakuraba. Vitor dominating at the beggining but his cardio failled him (out of supplement?). Also I think he was in a "dark" moment of his life. Isn't this around the time his sister got abducted? Could be wrong there...

The Rampage that joined the UFC and TRT Vitor would have destroyed Sakuraba tbh.

And as for Royce, he probably simply had a good night. Sakuraba >> Royce.

Btw, while Sakuraba is from the first gen of MMA fighther, he was an evolution vs other fighters. He was the first to do it all. We had to wait on GSP for the next evolution.
Much respect for Sakuraba.

Kidnappin´was later.

Huas was realistically the 1st,tho... SAKU G. belongs to the modern era, not really a pioneer.

 

[cmw43]

Rampage and Vitor were guys that are every bit or nearly as good as today's best fighters at MW, LHW, and HW.

Matt Hughes could not even beat today's gatekeeper WWs and he steamrolled Royce with a 10-6 in like 3 minutes.

Sakuraba fought him for over like 1 hour.

How did a guy that went 1 hour with and still couldn't finish a UFC 1 guy manage to beat Rampage and Vitor?

Have you actually watched any of these fights?

 

[Sakurabinette]

How did Sakuraba beat Rampage, Vitor

If I recall correctly:
Vitor tried to end Saku early and broke both his hands in the process.
Because he was still very green, he had no idea what to do after he couldn't punch so he defaulted to the butt scoot position for the rest of the fight.

Rampage was severely diminished because Pride asked him to cut a considerable amount of weight in a very short period of time.
I believe the fight was on short notice.

Both Vitor and Quinton gave it their best shot.
Saku was just better in that context.

 

[Bruce Lee666]

each fight is different...

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

Artem Lobov > Fedor and Anderson Silva according to MMA math

 

[mmathurbator]

Vitor fight was pretty suspect looking iirc. Vitor barely tried to do anything.

Vitor is known for having not much heart. He broke his hand bad on Saku's head early in that fight and basically was a sitting duck the rest of it.

 

[Steve-French]

If I recall correctly:
Vitor tried to end Saku early and broke both his hands in the process.
Because he was still very green, he had no idea what to do after he couldn't punch so he defaulted to the butt scoot position for the rest of the fight.

Rampage was severely diminished because Pride asked him to cut a considerable amount of weight in a very short period of time.
I believe the fight was on short notice.

Both Vitor and Quinton gave it their best shot.
Saku was just better in that context.

Yup.. Vitor had two broken hands and they made Rampage cut a shit ton of weight on top of being really green. It was his Pride debut and he had only been fighting a year and a half up to that point.

 

[lostdog000]

vitor had 2 broken hands
rampage was forced to cut the most weight ever
saku also took the terrible gils arsene to decision
why?
maybe yakuza asked him to?

 

[mmathurbator]

Styles make fights

This. Rampage and Vitor were not ground specialists and Saku was. Royce was. Styles make fights.

 

[mmathurbator]

youve made 17,000 posts on sherdog and you still think mma math operates on cartesian coordinates

I don't know wtf cardisian coordinates are (someone got a word of the day calendar for his birthday) but yeah, 17k and still a noob.

 

[gono btw]

If I recall correctly:
Vitor tried to end Saku early and broke both his hands in the process.

Yup.. Vitor had two broken hands and they made Rampage cut a shit ton of weight on top of being really green. It was his Pride debut and he had only been fighting a year and a half up to that point.

Only 1 broken hand, tho...

Interview Vitor Gracie [July 2000]:

Reporter:
"Many fighters want to fight with Sak. Who can defeat him, you think?"
Vitor Gracie:
"When I fought Sak I had an accident during the fight, I broke my hand. I want a rematch to display my game properly. Sak is an outstanding fighter but he doesn't show so much aggressiveness and disposition, his game is grounded in the opponent's mistake. There are a few fighters that can defeat him."

saku also took the terrible gils arsene to decision
why?
maybe yakuza asked him to?

Not sure if serious....

This. Rampage and Vitor were not ground specialists and Saku was. Royce was. Styles make fights.

Vitor... Gracie... tho...

 

[chamcham]

Sakuraba fought Royce in a fight that had unlimited rounds and no rules. So the fighting strategy was much different. Points didn’t matter. So putting in a 10-8 round wouldn’t have done anything. Conversing energy was vital. Because the match became a war of attrition.

Also, don’t forget that Sakuraba is a catch wrestler and there is a long history of catch wrestling vs BJJ. So i’m sure Sakuraba wanted to put on a clinic and submit Royce. Giving your back to a Gracie was fatal in those days. But Sakuraba did it willingly and without fear. I also felt that Sakuraba may have been in the best shape of his life during that match.

 

[donkeyjr]

Watch the fights, you'll see exactly how.

The Rampage he fought was green as hell, basically only a wrestler so he got submitted. Vitor just had gargantuan brain farts during the fight.

Vitor broke his hands in that fight.

 

[gono btw]

Vitor broke his hands in that fight.

one hand.

Sakuraba fought Royce in a fight that had unlimited rounds and no rules. So the fighting strategy was much different. Points didn’t matter. So putting in a 10-8 round wouldn’t have done anything. Conversing energy was vital. Because the match became a war of attrition.

Also, don’t forget that Sakuraba is a catch wrestler and there is a long history of catch wrestling vs BJJ. So i’m sure Sakuraba wanted to put on a clinic and submit Royce. Giving your back to a Gracie was fatal in those days. But Sakuraba did it willingly and without fear. I also felt that Sakuraba may have been in the best shape of his life during that match.

 

[Deleted member 359865]

Vitor fight was pretty suspect looking iirc. Vitor barely tried to do anything.

I honestly think he didn’t wanna get caught in a suspect sub.

 

[Deleted member 359865]

About the Rampage case, this is what he stated afterwards:

"I remember my stomach feeling like I swallowed a brick," Jackson recalled in 2007. "I still, to this day, think that somebody poisoned my room service or something like that. I was happy that it was my biggest paycheck to date, but I know Pride brought me there to lose. They made me lose all this weight when Pride didn't even have weight classes. I knew there was no way I could win. But I knew I couldn't turn back and not fight. I said, 'I've got to go out there and put on the best show possible and do my best so I could at least make a name for myself and Pride would have me back.'

“The UFC treats me better than Pride. I don't know what their [PRIDE] problem was but they wouldn't promote me at all, they cheated me out of money from dolls and t-shirts, not paying me... when my contract was up and we were negotiating and I wanted more money and they were telling me ‘oh, but you're a nobody.' This was after I had fought in the Grand Prix and beat Igor Vovchanchyn.”

“Even after I went to that K-1 fight and represented them in K-1, they were mad I won that K-1 fight! Just stuff like that... Igor Vovchanchyn, I got two weeks notice [for the fight]. Ninja, two weeks notice. It was bad. The tournaments were fixed. They said they drew numbers from a hat. It was all set up for Wanderlei to win. It was really bad. Even in some fights they would stand you up when you were winning, different stuff like that.”

About the Bonus from Pride: not to tap.



That kidnappin´ was later, tho...

Seems like a perfectly reasonable excuse for someone who lost to a smaller opponent.

 

[Kforcer]

The Rampage that joined the UFC and TRT Vitor would have destroyed Sakuraba tbh.

Nah. The Rampage that Sakuraba fought was better in a lot of ways that UFC-era Rampage. The Rampage Sakuraba fought was still an excellent wrestler and a good grappler who showed himself capable of pulling off submission finishes and also had excellent ground control. Rampage, if anything, became more one-dimensional in the UFC, as he became less and less interested in wrestling and grappling and became content to simply complain about people that didn't want to slug it out with him. You could argue that his striking became better and more multidimensional, but the rest of his game certainly didn't.

And Sakuraba fought that mythic beast known as "prime Vitor", who was not only physically at his peak but was very possibly enhanced beyond that. The man who ran through Wanderlei Silva. Sakuraba fought him at his best and he beat him. Yes, Vitor injured his hand. But of course, that is the sort of risk you have to take when you are punching people in the head.

Sakuraba is the guy who is about 50 years old and still able to compete against the best the grappling world has to offer and more often than not, go to a draw, as he did with Daniel Strauss and more recently, Gilbert Burns. He's very, very good and Rampage and Vitor fought a younger version of him.

 

[Kforcer]

I remember those days. Rampage was green. He lost but gave a lot of trouble to Sakuraba. Vitor dominating at the beggining but his cardio failled him (out of supplement?). Also I think he was in a "dark" moment of his life. Isn't this around the time his sister got abducted? Could be wrong there...

The Rampage that joined the UFC and TRT Vitor would have destroyed Sakuraba tbh.

And as for Royce, he probably simply had a good night. Sakuraba >> Royce.

Btw, while Sakuraba is from the first gen of MMA fighther, he was an evolution vs other fighters. He was the first to do it all. We had to wait on GSP for the next evolution.
Much respect for Sakuraba.

Vitor's sister was kidnapped prior to his fight with Randy Couture. And the heartless UFC crowd booed him nonetheless, because of the way he won the fight. And the MMA fans and media weren't much better. Take the response to Walt Harris and invert it and that's what Vitor got.