How good was Fedor really? Was he truly elite?

[Ludwig von Mises]

You are being extremely dismissive where you want and over inflating the value of what suits your perspective. Stipe beat DC twice not just once. Stipe's run I mentioned you dismissed yet Fedor never had a string of CONSECUTIVE opponents and you never answered that fact. We seem to have very different perspectives and I feel we should just agree to disagree. I am not really that invested in the matter.

I'm not being dismissive. Its just that I understand the difference between beating an all time great HW when they're at their best and in their 20s and beating an all time great HW when they're 40 years old and well past their prime.

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years and became world champion by beating an all time great HW twice when he was in his 20s and at his best and out classing everyone else who was a contender. That's how many fights Stipe has in 14 years! Stipe was getting knocked out by Stefan Struve 3 years into is career.

After Fedor became the HW champion he won his next consecutive 18 fights. In those 18 fights he beat Big Nog, Mirko, Arlovski when they were at their absolute peaks and in their 20s. He also beat peak momentum Randleman who was coming off a KO win over Mirko in that 18 fight span. Not to mention he also beat guys like Sylvia and Hunt in that span and also Mark Coleman who got a fight with Fedor because he had just beaten top 5 P4P Shogun.

Stipe beat a 39 year old Werdum who went 4-5 in his next 9 fights and the average age of his next 10 opponents was damn near 40 years old.

You'd have to be so biased and dismissive to not understand the significance of this.

Stipe is still an all time great. His list of wins still looks amazing and has good wins on it but only a UFC fanboy would say his body of work was superior to Fedors. It's almost like beating fighters in their prime means nothing.

 

[JKS]

Minus the 0-1 fighters on his record, he had average resume. Maldonado put him on Queer Street for Christs sake at like 33 years old.

Come on! At least get the age right when he fought Fabio. He was 40 at the time

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Beat Prime Big Nog, Prime Arlovski, Prime Tim Sylvia, Prime Cro Cop, Prime Coleman.

Not much else needs to be said to justify Fedor being labelled elite.

Arlovski is still hanging around the current generation of HWs.

and on top of all of those PRIMES, also took out Semmy Schilt (K1 Champion), Heath Herring (certified dog), Fujita, Goodridge, KEVIN RANDLEMAN, Mark Hunt, and many more other fighters that he didn't have to, but entertained because JMMA is King. There is no other HW with his range/extent of competition, who won every battle, including the PRIMES, and for the most part dominated. Sure there were some hairy moments, but you could see his resolve and determination, you could see the efforts of utilizing then revolutionary training methods, i.e. bat spinning yourself in circles to mimic damage, playground training, tire flipping, sledgehammering tires, etc, all of this to gain victory when it seemed like it potentially wasn't there. No other MMA HW has done what he has done, or will do. Fedor had the opportunity to destroy all, fillers too, and cross organization champions. There's a reason why UFC suddenly cared about "P4P" "rankings" once they acquired Anderson, and it was because undoubtedly, at that time, Fedor was everyone's number 1 as he should be. Then the UFC cared, couldn't allow that to happen. Revisioners revision someplace else. We remember. We won't forget. noobs.

 

[Taric]

How good was Fedor?

I have a hard time genuinely believing that Fedor is truly elite and up there with goats such as

GSP
Anderson
MM
Jones
DC

Fedors record was too padded he fought in such a different weak era and when Fedor came up against semi modern MMA fighters he got beaten badly and could not hang

Some say that he could not hang because of his age. I do not believe this one bit. The real issue was he came up against modern MMA fighters. Isn't is such a coincidence he only started to lose once he faced true elite HWs and all of a sudden he was "out of his prime."

Anderson wrecked Hendo, Fedor a HW got wrecked by Hendo.

Werdum stopped Fedor

And I believe prime Fedor would lose to

Poatan
Anderson
Cain
DC
Aspinal
Gane
Nganu
Black Beast
Jones
Overseen


Fedor has such a padded record and had huge holes in his game

Fedor had poor Boxing, poor fight IQ, poor bottom game. Jones would take him down and elbow him to oblivion.

Fedor was a good fighter but should not be compared to the true elite.

Fedor's myth is more folk lore and myth. His best wins are Cro cop and Nog. Cro cop and nog are good but have glaring holes in their game.

He was the consensus #1 ranked HW from 2003-2010.... that's 7 years.

Of your list:

• GSP
• Anderson
• MM
• Jones
• DC

Do you know how many of these fighters were also the consensus #1 fighter of their division for 7+ years?

• Jon Jones

End of list.

Age and mileage didn't effect Fedor's run? There is exactly one fighter in the history of all of fucking MMA that was #1 longer than him. If Fedor retired at the same age GSP did, Fedor would've retired with a 31–1 record.

The fuck is wrong with some of you idiots?

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I'm not bearing dismissive. Its just that understand the difference between beating an all time great HW when they're at their best and in their 20s and beating an all time great HW when they're 40 years old and well past their prime.

Fedor had 23 fights in his first 4 years and became world champion by beating an all time great HW twice when he was in his 20s and at his best and out classing everyone else who was a contender. That's how many fights Stipe has in 14 years! Stipe was getting knocked out by Stefan Struve 3 years into is career.

After Fedor became the HW champion he won his next consecutive 18 fights. In those 18 fights he beat Big Nog, Mirko, Arlovski when they were at their absolute peaks and in their 20s. He also beat peak momentum Randleman who was coming off a KO win over Mirko in the span. Not to mention he also beat guys like Sylvia and Hunt in those 18 fights too and Mark Coleman who got a fight with Fedor because he had just beaten top 5 P4P Shogun.

Stipe beat a 39 year old Werdum who went 4-5 in his next 9 fights and the average age of his next 10 opponents was damn near 40 years old.

You'd have to be so biased and dismissive to not understand the significance of this.

Stipe is still an all time great. His list of wins still looks amazing and has good wins on it but only a UFC fanboy would say his body of work was superior to Fedors. It's almost like beating fighters in their prime means nothing.

Having an opinion simply doesn't make it Fact. You still skip over Fedor not fighting top competition CONSISTENTLY. You say Stipe got KO'd by Struve 3 years into his career but at 33 Fedor lost 3 in a row to Werdum, Bigfoot & MW Dan Henderson. At 33 Stipe went on a run against 37 year old Arlovski fprmer UFC champion, 38 year old Werdum (current HW champion of the world) , 36 year old Overeem former SF & Dream Champion) & 33 year old JDS (former UFC champion) & 32 year old Francis (future HW champion). Not one single guy is 40 at the time of their fights and yet you EXAGGERATE they average 40. That actually averages 35. On top of that you act like HWs peak in their 20s when in fact they do not, certainly not in the modern era of MMA.

You have your opinion and I see why you have it and what you base it on. I have mine and I feel what Stipe has done is more impressive. Both are great fighters. As I said we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[BabyBlue_Bomber]

Obvious joke thread…

 

[PaulieVegas27]

Oh for Pete's sake, why are we even still having this silly debate?

Yes, Fedor is elite.

#stopthemadness

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Having an opinion simply doesn't make it Fact. You still skip over Fedor not fighting top competition CONSISTENTLY. You say Stipe got KO'd by Struve 3 years into his career but at 33 Fedor lost 3 in a row to Werdum, Bigfoot & MW Dan Henderson. At 33 Stipe went on a run against 37 year old Arlovski fprmer UFC champion, 38 year old Werdum (current HW champion of the world) , 36 year old Overeem former SF & Dream Champion) & 33 year old JDS (former UFC champion) & 32 year old Francis (future HW champion). Not one single guy is 40 at the time of their fights and yet you EXAGGERATE they average 40. That actually averages 35. On top of that you act like HWs peak in their 20s when in fact they do not, certainly not in the modern era of MMA.

You have your opinion and I see why you have it and what you base it on. I have mine and I feel what Stipe has done is more impressive. Both are great fighters. As I said we will have to agree to disagree.

Nobody in Fedors era fought top competition consistently because the matchmaking landscape was completely differnt in those days.

He still fought elite HWs at their peak consistently enough to measure his success against them while averaging 5 fights per year.

Fedor fought Magomedov and Oleinik in full contact, combat sambo in 2003- a year in which Fedor already had 5 fights and a championship fight. The Oleinik fight was full contact bare knuckle. That's 7 fights in one year.

By the time Fedor lost by KO at 33 he had over 35 fights and had been a pro for 11 years.

Stipe got knocked out by Struve when was 30 years old, in his 10th fight, 3 years into his career- Fedor was already fighting for a world title against the best HW on the planet and winning in dominant fashion.

Werdum was 39 years old and went 4-5 in his next 9. It's a good win buts not as good as beating an all time great HW at their peak.

36 year old Overeem had been fighting for over 15 years and had been knocked out like 16 times by the time he fought Stipe and had been stopped in the UFC 3x before he fought Stipe. A good win at best.

JDS beat Stipe when he still had some youth left in the tank the first time they fought even though he was already a shell of his former self by that point due to the beatings he took from Cain. By the time Stipe finally beat JDS he was officially washed up and never won two in a row ever again. Good win but nothing special.

Arlovski had been knocked out like 10x by the time Stipe beat him. Never went on another run after that. Good win but nothing special.

Francis was dangerous but still very green and mentally weak. He lost to Derrick Lewis in his very next fight. Still a good win but its not a coincidence that he absolutely melted Stipe in the rematch when he hit his peak. It was congruent with my narrative.

Name one all time great HW Stipe beat during their peak. You can't and his consistent crushing of senior citizens doesn't offset that. Does that mean Stipe sucks? No. He's an all time great HW who is probably top 5-7 all time depending on who you ask.

For me personally its hard to put Stipe ahead of guys like Fedor, Nog, Werdum, DC and Cain who destroyed some of the greatest HWs ever while they were at their very best. For me thats more important than crushing washed up HWs with consistency.

Maybe Cain is the only guy from this bunch which I could put Stipe ahead of in terms of legacy because of Cains short career but even then Cain absolutely smashed peak all time great JDS twice- something Stipe has never accomplished.

This isn't even a knock on Stipe. Being a top 5 HW of all time is an incredible achievement.

Good sparring bruv.

 

[JBJisGOAT14]

He was the consensus #1 ranked HW from 2003-2010.... that's 7 years.

Of your list:

• GSP
• Anderson
• MM
• Jones
• DC

Do you know how many of these fighters were also the consensus #1 fighter of their division for 7+ years?

• Jon Jones

End of list.

Age and mileage didn't effect Fedor's run? There is exactly one fighter in the history of all of fucking MMA that was #1 longer than him. If Fedor retired at the same age GSP did, Fedor would've retired with a 31–1 record.

The fuck is wrong with some of you idiots?

The record is irrelevant, he fought 0-1, 0-2, 0-0 fighters. His record is padded to the gills with cans.

 

[Neck&Neck]

Wrong Forum

 

[Taric]

The record is irrelevant, he fought 0-1, 0-2, 0-0 fighters. His record is padded to the gills with cans.

Fedor and Jon Jones have the exact same number of zero win fighters on their records... literally the exact same.

Every fighter has zero win fighters on their record because that's who you fight when you begin fighting.

Forget about the fact that other than Nogueira there is nobody that has fought more UFC HW champions than Fedor. Werdum, for example, fought at HW for 21 years and fought two less UFC HW champions than Fedor did (three less than Nogueira). Stipe also has fought two less UFC HW champions than Fedor has (three less than Nogueira).

Some of this shit you people believe isnt even factual.

 

[ThunderStruck]

I have a hard time genuinely believing that Fedor is truly elite and up there with goats such as

You sound like you a have a hard with a lot of things in life.

 

[orca]

He was ok. I beat him a couple of times too via sub.

your a troll because u cant even defend your boy fedor
ive seen u post i thought u where like a child
posting nonsense

ive seen you contradict yourself so many times
like its fair in pride because they all use roids

but when i call fedor a roider you just reply
they all are ped abusers

the only one not using is fedor

are u a child in a mans body?

 

[Bobby Boulders]

and on top of all of those PRIMES, also took out Semmy Schilt (K1 Champion), Heath Herring (certified dog), Fujita, Goodridge, KEVIN RANDLEMAN, Mark Hunt, and many more other fighters that he didn't have to, but entertained because JMMA is King. There is no other HW with his range/extent of competition, who won every battle, including the PRIMES, and for the most part dominated. Sure there were some hairy moments, but you could see his resolve and determination, you could see the efforts of utilizing then revolutionary training methods, i.e. bat spinning yourself in circles to mimic damage, playground training, tire flipping, sledgehammering tires, etc, all of this to gain victory when it seemed like it potentially wasn't there. No other MMA HW has done what he has done, or will do. Fedor had the opportunity to destroy all, fillers too, and cross organization champions. There's a reason why UFC suddenly cared about "P4P" "rankings" once they acquired Anderson, and it was because undoubtedly, at that time, Fedor was everyone's number 1 as he should be. Then the UFC cared, couldn't allow that to happen. Revisioners revision someplace else. We remember. We won't forget. noobs.

JMMA really is king. It really, really is. The purest fights you'll ever see, without all of the arbitrary rules that water down the sport.

Your posts always get me pumped the fuck up. Like reading a line of pure cocaine. Always happy to see someone sees it my way.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

JMMA really is king. It really, really is. The purest fights you'll ever see, without all of the arbitrary rules that water down the sport.

Your posts always get me pumped the fuck up. Like reading a line of pure cocaine. Always happy to see someone sees it my way.

Respect brother, you know what it is up, you were alongside, deep in the trenches, when the wars mattered. Where the reverb on the microphones added to the intensity and grandiosity that was the world's great MMA organization of all time, universe, potentially multiverse. 100% the purest rules, that allow for the most closest simulation we have to a real fight. Fuck elbows. I don't need to see quick stoppages due to a cut. I want to see knee strikes from side control, I want to see a wrestler made stupendous from a disastrous double leg, eating knees to the top of his dome. JMMA king, PRIDE FC the greatest combat organization ever. See you at that next Rizin PBP!!!!! PRIDE NEVER DIE.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

Respect brother, you know what it is up, you were alongside, deep in the trenches, when the wars mattered. Where the reverb on the microphones added to the intensity and grandiosity that was the world's great MMA organization of all time, universe, potentially multiverse. 100% the purest rules, that allow for the most closest simulation we have to a real fight. Fuck elbows. I don't need to see quick stoppages due to a cut. I want to see knee strikes from side control, I want to see a wrestler made stupendous from a disastrous double leg, eating knees to the top of his dome. JMMA king, PRIDE FC the greatest combat organization ever. See you at that next Rizin PBP!!!!! PRIDE NEVER DIE.

I just hope RIZIN doesn't make it a regular thing for the foreigners to have to wait until the Monday after the card to watch. You wanna talk about fury? Rarely in my existence have I been so angry. I'd been fucking pumped the entire week for Landmark 9, only to get to that point and realize it wasn't happening. I think that, at least for their number cards, we get them in real time, but I can't read anything on their site, so I'm not 100% sure. They need to tighten some shit up with their platform. They can always count on me throwing my money at them, so long they make it make sense. I'm not trying to watch their cards days after the fact, I wanna take part.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

I never said Fedor was scared or Ducking. Simply comparing Stipe's career vs Fedor's. IMO Stipe > Fedor as a HW all time. Both are great but I feel what Stipe accomplished had a much higher level of difficulty. It is subjective for certain but just how I see it.

no way dude. Stipe got TKO'd by Stefan Struve LOL. Fedor had the obvious way harder HW murderer's row compared to Stipe. That kind of comparison just proves how little some people know, and shows that you were not watching at that time. You lack perspective.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

I just hope RIZIN doesn't make it a regular thing for the foreigners to have to wait until the Monday after the card to watch. You wanna talk about fury? Rarely in my existence have I been so angry. I'd been fucking pumped the entire week for Landmark 9, only to get to that point and realize it wasn't happening. I think that, at least for their number cards, we get them in real time, but I can't read anything on their site, so I'm not 100% sure. They need to tighten some shit up with their platform. They can always count on me throwing my money at them, so long they make it make sense. I'm not trying to watch their cards days after the fact, I wanna take part.

With you right there, very disappointed with the Landmark 9 stream and the constant delays. Not sure if you're US, but they unleashed a rizin.tv website for their US broadcasts now, and the next event will be no delay, US commentary, same time viewing. That Landmark 9 card had some decent match ups on paper too. Disappointing they cut out right before Buakaw's match fucking lol.

 

[Bobby Boulders]

With you right there, very disappointed with the Landmark 9 stream and the constant delays. Not sure if you're US, but they unleashed a rizin.tv website for their US broadcasts now, and the next event will be no delay, US commentary, same time viewing. That Landmark 9 card had some decent match ups on paper too. Disappointing they cut out right before Buakaw's match fucking lol.

I still haven't watched the card, will probably do it this weekend, since fights are kinda shallow. I was extra pissed, bc I thought I bought Landmark 9, only to realize I bought Landmark 8 for a second time, and good luck getting a refund from Japan. I saw the Buakaw fight was posted to YouTube, a few days ago, hoping they uploaded the entire card.

Did you see they were able to put together the rematch between Horiguchi and Pettis???? I was legitimately stunned. Pettis had signed a longterm extension with Bellator last summer, so I'm surprised by the announcement. PFL surely could have found a way to use him in one of their own orgs, and I can't presume they allowed him to walk. But, maybe. RIZIN making more moves, anyhow, continuing their progress. Nice to see.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

I still haven't watched the card, will probably do it this weekend, since fights are kinda shallow. I was extra pissed, bc I thought I bought Landmark 9, only to realize I bought Landmark 8 for a second time, and good luck getting a refund from Japan. I saw the Buakaw fight was posted to YouTube, a few days ago, hoping they uploaded the entire card.

Did you see they were able to put together the rematch between Horiguchi and Pettis???? I was legitimately stunned. Pettis had signed a longterm extension with Bellator last summer, so I'm surprised by the announcement. PFL surely could have found a way to use them in one of their own orgs, and I can't presume they allowed him to walk. But, maybe. RIZIN making more moves, anyhow, continuing their progress. Nice to see.

Landmark 9 was alright, 7/10. The big name fights were good, first few prelims those dudes fought hard.

I did see horiguchi / pettis, pretty damn crazy! It seems like Rizin has fully acquired Archuletta, it is interesting that they're giving Pettis a shot. And agreed, awesome to see this level of co-promotion, it's way better this way. I'm like you, I will give Rizin my money, because MMA was/is better with a premier Japanese organization. It's the only way we get to see these kinds of fights, the ruleset, the respect, the level of prestige that it deserves, etc. Hoping for a legitimate open weight class tournament one of these days in the future. Kim Soo Chul is coming back too, he's a legit Korean fighter from Road FC.