I don't understand people who rank Nogueira above Stipe

PalmStrike said:
Meh, Ngannou looks great hitting pads but he doesn't fight like he trains.

You can see his straight punches coming a mile away and he throws hooks from his hip for fuqqs sake.

Pride Hunt would KO any version of Francis.

Also:
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That’s a bold statement but I’ll respect your opinion. I can only say look their records and results. That doesn’t include Huntos decent groundwork, which makes Ngannou’s stand up even scarier.
 
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moreorless87 said:
The problem with this viewpoint is that a lot of Stipes rep is based on fighters like Overeem, Werdum, Hunt and Arlovski from "the good old days".
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Werdum was middle of the pack in PRIDE and didn’t really hit his stride until strikeforce when he had more experience under his belt. I don’t really consider him in that same group. His best run of his career came in UFC not PRIDE. Also, guys like DC, Ngannou, JDS (even if he was damaged goods) would do well in PRIDE. They are just as good as the top talent of the PRIDE division. Francis, while not as technical would have a lot of physical advantages over guys like Nog, Cro Cop, Fedor who were 220-230 and were smaller heavyweights.
 
moreorless87 said:
Which is exactly what your doing, resorting to a tide of childish insults when someone questions something you post.
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You are the one who threw the first actual direct personal insult against me When you said I was whining which then made it fair game to retaliate. I never said anything bad about you once till you called me whining first. What kind of coward are you? If you are going to dish it be prepared to take it.

You were getting triggered like a little bitch pretty early on I’m surprised it took you that long till you started to deviate from the subject matter of the debate and resort to personal attacks ... which let me remind u again, you did to me first... and then said I was the one acting childish? LOL really are you serious?
 
snugglecakes said:
You are the one who threw the first actual direct personal insult against me When you said I was whining which then made it fair game to retaliate. I never said anything bad about you once till you called me whining first. What kind of coward are you? If you are going to dish it be prepared to take it.

You were getting triggered like a little bitch pretty early on I’m surprised it took you that long till you started to deviate from the subject matter of the debate and resort to personal attacks ... which let me remind u again, you did to me first... and then said I was the one acting childish? LOL really are you serious?
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That related to what you were posting, basically calling you out for making obvious implications Nog was on PEDs then backing off from them before making them again, your response was a torrent of playground insults.
 
moreorless87 said:
That related to what you were posting, basically calling you out for making obvious implications Nog was on PEDs then backing off from them before making them again, your response was a torrent of playground insults.
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So what yur trying to say is... you’re a Complete cunt dick douche and that big nog was garbage at unarmed combat n he injected fat roid needles into his recital membrane so he could crush cans a lil faster.
You would respect my opinion just like I leave you free to your opinion but you are such a childish little baby bitch you can’t stand when somebody thinks differently then you do
 
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Kkenway said:
Nog's best wins:
1. Cro Cop
2. Barnett (whom he arguably lost to twice)
3. Green Werdum with no striking
4. Sergei
5. Randy

Stipe:
1. DC
2. Ngannou
3. Werdum
4. Reem
5. JDS

Nog in his absolute prime barely won a highly controversial decision over a Ricco that got KO'd by Sylvia in the UFC a few months previously.

Nog also has 10 losses to Stipe's two, and both of Stipe's losses were preceded by vicious eye pokes that weren't caught by the ref.

Nog is arguably 0-2 against Barnett, as he lost to him the first time and squeaked out another controversial decision in the rematch by lay and pray.

The only close decision of Stipe's career went against him (JDS 1), which was avenged brutally.
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So old jds old werdum dc lhw and washed up reem ??

You dont understand because you're from another era.. prolly born in 2000 and you only know what's here today bud..
 
I am ranking Big Nog over Stipe now, but it's very close. I think another 1-2 wins max and I'll have Stipe higher.
 
Threads like this are a good example of why I in my head I segregate promotions like PRIDE, Rings, and Pancrase from modern cage-fighting promotions operating under Unified Rules. They're all MMA at the end of the day, but I feel like discussions ultimately end up getting bogged down by people shit-flinging about which promotion was/is better for "X" reasons and thus no constructive debate can be had.

Is it self-indulgent mental gymnastics on my part? Maybe. But I think it's justifiable. The rule sets are different. Same with scoring criteria. Fighting in a ring and a cage are not identical, especially nowadays when we're seeing fighters whose gameplans rely heavily on exploiting the cage for offense and defense.

Yes, they're both MMA and are more closely-related as combat sports than, say, MMA is to boxing. But even so, it's not super common for people to make direct comparisons of an F1 driver to one in NASCAR despite both being competitive automobile racing sports on a track. If one does make the transition (as several have), contemporary discussion of their accolades are usually limited to their accomplishments in that sport. And I would argue that the differences between cage-fighting and ring MMA are greater than the relative differences between NASCAR and F1 (last time I mentioned this someone made the analogy of F1 to rally racing)... YMMV.
 
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Tweak896 said:
Big nog would absolutely lose in his prime today. He was great when BJJ defense wasn't as uniform and he had decent boxing to mix it up. But he would get blasted by punches and wrestling even in his prime. He still probably has a top 5 spot or close, but yeah his skillset is almost as bad as comparing royce gracie to modern fighters. Fun fighter to watch and in his time was #2 hw goat.
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Yep. Big Nog is simply from another era. It's like comparing guys like Shamrock and Rutten to today.
 
Katsumi Yamada said:
What's your point?
Bob Sapp in 2002 was an absolute beast. He stopped Ernesto Hoost twice.
To me, this is one of his most impressive victories which showed his heart above anything else.
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In kickboxing he did. in MMA he was 3-1.

Maybe try a bit of context next time.
 
sampuncher said:
In kickboxing he did. in MMA he was 3-1.

Maybe try a bit of context next time.
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Actually he was 2-0 and it's not me that needs to use the right context.

Post 2008 Sapp is a joke, getting almost stopped by him would be a big embarrassment for a serious heavyweight.
Post 2003 Sapp is a broken fighter.
But from his debut until he lost to Crocop he was a beast and a dangerous fight for anyone in k1 or MMA.
 
Katsumi Yamada said:
Actually he was 2-0 and it's not me that needs to use the right context.

Post 2008 Sapp is a joke, getting almost stopped by him would be a big embarrassment for a serious heavyweight.
Post 2003 Sapp is a broken fighter.
But from his debut until he lost to Crocop he was a beast and a dangerous fight for anyone in k1 or MMA.
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You said in 2002. By the end of 2002 he was 3 and 1.

Also, you bring up Crocop, same you did with Hoost. Those were kickboxing fights no relevance here. He can be a great kickboxer, doesn't make him a beast of a MMA fighter. Look at Gokhan Saki.
 
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