I don't understand people who rank Nogueira above Stipe

A lot of people like to look back at the Pride fighters through rose colored lenses like they were these unbeatable forces. They had some great fighters, but it was proven that all of them were beatable.
 
Kkenway said:
Nog's best wins:
1. Cro Cop
2. Barnett (whom he arguably lost to twice)
3. Green Werdum with no striking
4. Sergei
5. Randy

Stipe:
1. DC
2. Ngannou
3. Werdum
4. Reem
5. JDS

Nog in his absolute prime barely won a highly controversial decision over a Ricco that got KO'd by Sylvia in the UFC a few months previously.

Nog also has 10 losses to Stipe's two, and both of Stipe's losses were preceded by vicious eye pokes that weren't caught by the ref.

Nog is arguably 0-2 against Barnett, as he lost to him the first time and squeaked out another controversial decision in the rematch by lay and pray.

The only close decision of Stipe's career went against him (JDS 1), which was avenged brutally.
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Beating a way past their prime Reem and JDS (who was never the same after he lost his belt). Stipe is great don't get me wrong, but prime Nog was another level of monster and the guys he was beating in their primes was sick.

Btw, you automatically lost your argument when you put in "oh he beat Barnett twice but basically lost to him both times, so those hold no merit" . Shows a huge bias & it doesn't matter how close the fight was a win is a win and Nog beat him twice.
 
Kkenway said:
Love how you ignored my point about Nog having more losses in his prime than Stipe, after you claimed he only has 10 losses because he was washed up lol
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His only losses in his prime are to Fedor and Barnett who are better wins than anyone on Stipe's record. Apparently you're not very good at reading cause i've already said this.
 
Kkenway said:
Losses matter regardless of what excuses you want to make for them, plus Nog should've lost a few more decisions when he was younger.

I already charted out their best wins and it is exceedingly obvious that Stipe's are better.
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Kkenway said:
Losses matter regardless of what excuses you want to make for them, plus Nog should've lost a few more decisions when he was younger.

I already charted out their best wins and it is exceedingly obvious that Stipe's are better.
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You obviously have your mind made up regardless of discussion. It's all subjective. Comparing a win now to a win 10-15 years ago. Some losses and wins age differently in hindsight. How will stipes wins and losses really look in 10 years? Who can say?
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Anyone who actually followed the sport at the time ranks him higher than Stipe. It's only people that weren't actually watching MMA when Big Nog was at his best that don't rank him higher. Prime Barnett and Fedor are better wins than any Stipe has. And if you want to argue that Nog should have lost fights he won then i'll do the opposite, he shouldn't have lost to Henderson if you actually watched that fight you would know that too.
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Anybody that was watching back then also knows that Nog never beat Fedor:D
 
Steve-French said:
Anybody that was watching back then also knows that Nog never beat Fedor:D
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Yeah, which is why Fedor is the HW GOAT. Fedor had 12 top 10 wins and beat Big Nog twice so he's number 1 and Big Nog has 14 top 10 wins so he's number 2.
 
kevinramsdell said:
Beating a way past their prime Reem and JDS (who was never the same after he lost his belt). Stipe is great don't get me wrong, but prime Nog was another level of monster and the guys he was beating in their primes was sick.

Btw, you automatically lost your argument when you put in "oh he beat Barnett twice but basically lost to him both times, so those hold no merit" . Shows a huge bias & it doesn't matter how close the fight was a win is a win and Nog beat him twice.
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Lol, you didn't even know that he lost to Barnett once officially. Fail!
NoBiasJustMMA said:
His only losses in his prime are to Fedor and Barnett who are better wins than anyone on Stipe's record. Apparently you're not very good at reading cause i've already said this.
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Lol @ thinking Barnett is better than DC or champ Werdum. Green DC already whooped Barnett's ass :D

3 losses in his prime lol, and should've been 5 considering he robbed Barnett and Ricco.

5 losses in his absolute prime + 5 more losses isn't a good look for the "#2 HW GOAT" lmao
 
Kkenway said:
Lol, you didn't even know that he lost to Barnett once officially. Fail!

Lol @ thinking Barnett is better than DC or champ Werdum

3 losses in his prime lol, and should've been 5 considering he robbed Barnett and Ricco.
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A 28 year old Prime Josh Barnett is better than a 40 year old DC and a 38 year old Werdum.
 
WHITE ANDERSON said:
nog got absolutely outclassed by frank mir everywhere
that should tell you all you need to know about nog
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giphy.gif
 
WHITE ANDERSON said:
nog got absolutely outclassed by frank mir everywhere
that should tell you all you need to know about nog
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Wasn't Frank Mir the UFC champ? Mir was one of the baddest and meanest HW's of all time. You sound like somebody young who has only seen Mir in his later years.:cool:
 
Kkenway said:
Nog's best wins:
1. Cro Cop
2. Barnett (whom he arguably lost to twice)
3. Green Werdum with no striking
4. Sergei
5. Randy

Stipe:
1. DC
2. Ngannou
3. Werdum
4. Reem
5. JDS

Nog in his absolute prime barely won a highly controversial decision over a Ricco that got KO'd by Sylvia in the UFC a few months previously.

Nog also has 10 losses to Stipe's two, and both of Stipe's losses were preceded by vicious eye pokes that weren't caught by the ref.

Nog is arguably 0-2 against Barnett, as he lost to him the first time and squeaked out another controversial decision in the rematch by lay and pray.

The only close decision of Stipe's career went against him (JDS 1), which was avenged brutally.
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Stipe is 19-3 when Nog had the same amount of fights he was 20-2, let's see how many losses Stipe racks up in his next 24 fights...

In his first 22 fights Nog was also very dominant and the no1 ranked HW.

By the time Stipe fought Reem, JDS 2 and Werdum they were past their prime.

Stipe had the advantage of coming into his prime when all the legends were leaving theirs.

Also prime Sylvia was a top striker for the HW division at the time.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
A 28 year old Prime Josh Barnett is better than a 40 year old DC and a 38 year old Werdum.
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HWs peak later, doesn't matter since DC started his career late anyway.

Barnett isn't even close to DC or Prime Werdum's level, and Nog should be 0-2 against him lmao
 
cmw43 said:
Stipe is 19-3 when Nog had the same amount of fights he was 20-2, let's see how many losses Stipe racks up in his next 24 fights...

In his first 22 fights Nog was also very dominant and the no1 ranked HW.

By the time Stipe fought Reem, JDS 2 and Werdum they were past their prime.

Stipe had the advantage of coming into his prime when all the legends were leaving theirs.

Also prime Sylvia was a top striker for the HW division at the time.
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Werdum was in peak shape when he fought Stipe, it was his first defense.

When Nog was 20-2, his best wins were Hendo and Coleman lmfao. Plus Prime Nog couldn't even dominate Ricco lol
 
Fedor is clearly #1 then a good argument can be made for
Werdum, Nog, JSD, Stipe as #2... I would personally would have my top 5 in that order, but I think he will end up surpassing them.
 
Kkenway said:
Lol, you didn't even know that he lost to Barnett once officially. Fail!

Lol @ thinking Barnett is better than DC or champ Werdum. Green DC already whooped Barnett's ass :D

3 losses in his prime lol, and should've been 5 considering he robbed Barnett and Ricco.

5 losses in his absolute prime + 5 more losses isn't a good look for the "#2 HW GOAT" lmao
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There you go again with the "oh he robbed this fighter and this fighter" lol dude you just don't understand how bad that makes you look. To get a valid argument across you need to be able to see both sides not just be completley bias for one side. That's where you're fucking up & why 95% of the thread is disagreeing with you.

Nogueria's prime was realistically over before he even came to the UFC. He had amassed 35 professional fights within 6.5 years and his body was completley beaten down from constant fighting, hard training down in Brazil and really tough fights. When he came to the UFC they had a weak HW division which allowed him to shine early. He beat Heath Herring who at the time only had 2 wins in 3.5 years and Tim Sylvia who would go on to get knocked out by Ray fucking Mercer only a year later. His head was out of the game once Couture came up and whooped his ass who Nogueria BEAT btw after Randy had just lost the HW title.

As many have already mentioned to you before, you need to analyze data from back then versus today and compare the number of top 10 ranked wins that Nogueria has versus how many Stipe has. If you're only argument is "oh well he beat DC and DC beat Barnett" then you might as well just move on my friend because MMA math isn't the way anybody should go when making an argument.
 
People knocking fighters losses at the end of their career are mostly teenagers who are too young to have followed a fighters career start to finish.

Stipe has a great record now. He hasn’t fought 46 fights yet. Lets see how his record looks if he fights 24 more.

Nog won the King of Kings and Pride Hw title in 2001. He was able to get the UFC interim title 7 years later. (I believe the longest time between anyone winning gold) and still manages a UFC win 11 years after he captures a title.

Let’s revisit in 6 years if stipe is still fighting. When he has had a 16 year career let’s look at the losses because they will start coming soon. Age catches up with us all.
 
Kkenway said:
Werdum was in peak shape when he fought Stipe, it was his first defense.

When Nog was 20-2, his best wins were Hendo and Coleman lmfao. Plus Prime Nog couldn't even dominate Ricco lol
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So you're gonna hold them to the same record because Stipe doesn't want to fight? Stipe has fought 22 times in 10 years, Nogueria fought 22 times in 4 years.

Interesting too... you skipped Cro Cop, prime Werdum, Kharitonov, prime Barnett... not to mention all these dudes were on roids because you only want to hold Nogueria to a certain number for some reason while blatanly skipping out on all the major competition he's fought and the 14 top 10 victories he holds.... interestinggggg
 
I agree with TS only for the fact that Nog was never the undisputed number 1 while Stipe has been for years.

Also Nogueira was never a clear number 2 like Cormier, he always struggled vs people and lost to some of them,
the Ricco decision was iffy but that Henderson decision was bs, that Rings tournament had a weird scoring system you had to totally dominate your opponent in the first 10 minutes to win, if you didnt you went to overtime and if you lost the 5 minute overtime you lost the entire match, also no strikes on the ground so people only needed to worry about the subs and i think he fought 2 other people the same night too.

But it's very disingenious to mention his 10 losses like every legend ends up his career awfully.
 
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