Last night's fight = Proof that Fedor time Pride HW Division was vastly superior to modern UFC HW

[markg171]

No amount of steroids would turn Derrick, Tai, Cyril, Jair, and all the other HW kickboxers into having amazing grappling technique.

Derrick's been submitted only 2x in his career. He just spent 25 minutes in full mount without being subbed or KO'd.

The idea that his ground game sucks needs to die. It's literally what allows him to keep KOing guys.

It's his striking that actually sucks, which is why he loses there all the time instead of on the ground.

 

[Aspiring Ultracrepidarian]

Fedor was literally Bellator's #2 HW earlier this year and none of the supposed Fedor fans give a fuck.

They're not fans. They're just nostalgics.

A real fan would recognize the success he had so late into his career, unlike many others, but they instead magically shut off his career in 2009 cause that's all they actually care about.

Sad.

I watched every Fedor fight until the end. I flew to LA to watch his retirement fight in Anaheim. Shit the bed waiting for a friend to respond, so only got 2nd row seats, not first... But, he hasn't been the same as his prime for a long time. He had some good, and fun, fights at the end.. but he was still a shell of himself.

 

[markg171]

10 years of mma and a lifetime of sambo and judo and you dont understand wear and tear?

I just told you why he started losing. Are you suggesting people enter their prime after 20 years of combat sports while being on the wrong side of 30? And the fact that he didnt is your proof that he was on peds? Jesus man. Even if he was, it wasnt against the rules. What's so hard to understad? I'm more surprised how other HWs manages to fight into their 40s. Either way i've spent enough time on this discussion.

Fedor didn't lose because he became shot. The dude was still fast as fuck, his power seemed to only get better as he got older, and his Bellator stint showed his grappling was as strong as ever. His chin was always nothing special, that didn't change either.

Fedor began losing because he'd always been reckless and his opponents started to actually be able to gameplan for this. Ryan Bader literally said he KO'd Fedor the first time because he'd studied his fights and realized he was weak at reacting to that punch. Don't believe him? The Bellator commentators themselves literally listed it pre-fight as one of Bader's keys to victory. Even they saw that hole.

Fedor very easily could've retired with only the Bigfoot loss. That's the only fight he just got beat pillar to post. The rest of his losses are him fighting like a retard and his opponents exploiting it. That's on him.

 

[markg171]

It is quite clear that HW is weak now and has few good fighters. You have a lot of noobies with the MMA evolution delusion.

LHW is even worse.

HW has always been only a few good guys and a bunch of weak fighters.

 

[markg171]

I watched every Fedor fight until the end. I flew to LA to watch his retirement fight in Anaheim. Shit the bed waiting for a friend to respond, so only got 2nd row seats, not first... But, he hasn't been the same as his prime for a long time. He had some good, and fun, fights at the end.. but he was still a shell of himself.

Fedor was always the same. The idea that Fedor couldn't have been Bellator's HW champion is nonsense. Ryan Bader stylistically is great for him. He's an old, slow, weak chinned wrestler. It's as good as Fedor could ask for.

Fedor lost those fights because he was always reckless and had poor tendencies. People got used to it and fought him more disciplined and prepared. Ryan himself said this the first time he KO'd him that he'd specifically trained to land that exact punch on Fedor because Fedor always left himself open to it. Even the Bellator commentators pre-fight listed that exact punch as a key to victory for Ryan. They saw it too.

Fedor's losses are his own fault. Not Father Time's.

 

[ryun253]

Antonio Silva destroyed prime Fedor and made him quit on his stool/no mas. Big foot then proceeded to get destroyed by a green DC. Fedor was good because he was ahead of the curve, but lets not carried away.

 

[Pingu]

Fedor didn't lose because he became shot. The dude was still fast as fuck, his power seemed to only get better as he got older, and his Bellator stint showed his grappling was as strong as ever. His chin was always nothing special, that didn't change either.

Fedor began losing because he'd always been reckless and his opponents started to actually be able to gameplan for this. Ryan Bader literally said he KO'd Fedor the first time because he'd studied his fights and realized he was weak at reacting to that punch. Don't believe him? The Bellator commentators themselves literally listed it pre-fight as one of Bader's keys to victory. Even they saw that hole.

Fedor very easily could've retired with only the Bigfoot loss. That's the only fight he just got beat pillar to post. The rest of his losses are him fighting like a retard and his opponents exploiting it. That's on him.

Fedor at his best was prrimarily a grappler. if you don't see any differrence in his grappling abily between pride and bellator then we fundamentally disagree on the subject. Have a nice day.

 

[Aspiring Ultracrepidarian]

Fedor was always the same. The idea that Fedor couldn't have been Bellator's HW champion is nonsense. Ryan Bader stylistically is great for him. He's an old, slow, weak chinned wrestler. It's as good as Fedor could ask for.

Fedor lost those fights because he was always reckless and had poor tendencies. People got used to it and fought him more disciplined and prepared. Ryan himself said this the first time he KO'd him that he'd specifically trained to land that exact punch on Fedor because Fedor always left himself open to it. Even the Bellator commentators pre-fight listed that exact punch as a key to victory for Ryan. They saw it too.

Fedor's losses are his own fault. Not Father Time's.

You are clearly not a martial artist; at least not a good one, if you can't see the decline in Fedor's skill set over time.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Fedor at his best was prrimarily a grappler. if you don't see any differrence in his grappling abily between pride and bellator then we fundamentally disagree on the subject. Have a nice day.

In Pride, he was sidemounted by Hunt

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

10 years from now people will still discredit Fedor.
Dude is GOAT HW.
Would a prime big Frank beat a Prime Fedor? It's likely but that doesn't change the fact that Fedor was GOAT HW.

 

[markg171]

Fedor at his best was prrimarily a grappler. if you don't see any differrence in his grappling abily between pride and bellator then we fundamentally disagree on the subject. Have a nice day.

You are clearly not a martial artist; at least not a good one, if you can't see the decline in Fedor's skill set over time.

Fedor literally tossed Chael and Mir, two expert grapplers, around like it was nothing in Bellator. His grappling skills were still amazing.

You live in denial about Fedor's actual problems which were his recklessness, lack of gameplans, and stagnation. Something that isn't at all in dispute considering it's literally the cause of all of his losses except TK and Bigfoot. Guy jumps into Werdum's guard, slugs with Hendo, has a double KD against Mitrione, and gets repeatedly caught against Bader of all people and you guys still blame it on de-evolution even though the problems are staring you straight in the face.

The thing that devolved was his brain. Not his body.

100% Fedor could've gone his entire career with the only real loss being to Bigfoot. Every other one he could've won if he didn't fight so stupidly.

 

[markg171]

In Pride, he was sidemounted by Hunt

Fedor is obviously a great grappler, but yeah he was never some shut out grappler who's never had bad moments before.

People just jizz their pants at him not being submitted by Nog even though Nog's best sub is uh like Sylvia or young Hendo I guess? Nog's subs come from his opponents being tired of kicking the shit out of him rather than him being so high level.

 

[snugglecakes]

To be honest, it doesn't sound like you were around to watch these guys fight. CC had amazing TD defense and a really strong guard.

Which Japanese light heavyweight take downs did cop cop stuff? Did he stuff Kevin randleman's rematch takedown or... u can be objective and accept that Kevin randleman is a middleweight. Do you brag when you stuff a takedown from a man 2 weight classes below you because I sure don't... rather I avoid getting caught out as the bully in a weight bully situation in the first place because i have an honor code that cro cop doesn't. Mark Coleman is a LHW so i wouldn't brag about stuffing his TD attempts either when yur supposed to be some ultimate HW contender. Was stuffing dubya dubya F(ake) wrasslin takedown shots from light heavyweight Alberto del Rio a good display of take down defense too? Which elite level true heavyweight take downs did mirko stuff? (Basically none n he gets taken down without fail when his opponent isn't great & or smaller)

Did fedor's bro even shoot a single td tho? What about Josh Barnet? He was a big (so we're told) wrestler and a true 250ish pound heavyweight so those were good stuffs right?.... or.. is Josh Barnet the 250 pound man (that insta deflated n exposed down to his true beta cruiserweight is loserweight 230s lbs form post usada)who couldn't become champ in a heavyweight landscape that had middleweights cracking the rankings n cruiserweights or less across the board for the whole top 7+. A champ,contender or 2 clocking in sub 235 is normal. You get prime stipes and JDS here n there but when its cruiserweights or less for the entire top ranking landscape then don't lie to yurself... that's a trash HW division through n through. The evidence is literally mathematical & speaks for itself thus you can only objectively conclude that Josh Barnet had every advantage you could want to have the belt handed to you on a silver platter and couldn't even get past the upper mid card during a histocially weak era of the divisiom, which can only lead to the conclusion that Josh Barnet was "never that good" as they say

So who else was failing actual true heavyweight power shots at cro cop that shows us his excellent TDD? Well we already covered stuffing no name light heavyweight japanese cans and then reminded you that his biggest name value pride wins are as low as middleweight such as Kevin. Igor is a middleweight too. What about his other opponents that also had name value... well they all took him the hell down! Mirko has never been able to consistently stop the takedown when his opponent wasn't a lhw, Mw, cruiserweight is loserweight, can, or an overrated. Cruiserweight nog took him down. Cruiserweight fedor took him down. Just about everybody in the ufc took him down cause it was an actual heavyweight division and not 90th percentile Cruiserweights, middleweights, n light heavyweights that substituted a weight cut for a steroid cycle instead... but their roids got canceled out and then some by opponents who were roided too but larger from their all natty starting point

 

[Lee_]

Which Japanese light heavyweight jobber scrub can take downs did cop cop stuff? Did he stuff Kevin randleman's rematch takedown or... u can be objective and accept that Kevin randleman is a middleweight. Do you brag when you stuff a takedown from a man 2 weight classes below you because I sure don't... rather I avoid getting caught out as the bully in a weight bully situation in the first place because i have an honor code that cro cop doesn't. Mark Coleman is a LHW so i wouldn't brag about stuffing his TD attempts either when yur supposed to be some ultimate HW contender. Was stuffing dubya dubya F fake wrestle takedown shots from light heavyweight Alberto del Rio a good display of take down defense too? Which elite level true heavyweight take downs did mirko stuff? (Basically none n he gets taken down without fail when his opponent isn't trash)

Did fedor's bro even shoot a single td tho? What about Josh Barnet? He was big and a true 250ish pound heavyweight so those were good stuffs right?.... or.. is Josh Barnet the 250 pound man (that insta deflated n exposed down to his true beta cruiserweight is loserweight 230s lbs form post usada)who couldn't become champ in a heavyweight landscape that had middleweights cracking the rankings n cruiserweights or less across the board for the whole top 7+. A champmor contender or 2 clocking in sub 235 is normal. You get prime stipes and JDS here n there but when its cruiserweights or less for the whole top 7ish then don't lie to yurself.. that's a trash HW division through and through. The evidence is literally mathematical & speaks for itself thus you can only objectively conclude that Josh Barnet had every advantage you could want to have the belt handed to you on a silver platter and couldn't even get past the upper mid card during a histocially weak era of the divisiom, which can only lead to the conclusion that Josh Barnet was "never that good" as they say

So who else was failing actual true heavyweight power shots at cro cop that shows us his excellent TDD? Well we already covered stuffing no name light heavyweight japanese cans and then reminded you that his biggest name value pride wins are as low as middleweight such as Kevin. Igor is a middleweight too. What about his other opponents that also had name value... well they all took him the hell down! Mirko has never been able to consistently stop the takedown when his opponent wasn't a lhw, Mw, cruiserweight is loserweight, can, or an overrated. Cruiserweight nog took him down. Cruiserweight fedor took him down. Just about everybody in the ufc took him down cause it was an actual heavyweight division and not 90th percentile Cruiserweights, middleweights, n light heavyweights that substituted a weight cut for a steroid cycle instead... but their roids got canceled out and then some by opponents who were roided too but larger from their all natty starting point

That's an awful lot of text to say not say a whole lot. There is nothing here that in any way refutes CC having great TDs.

 

[snugglecakes]

That's an awful lot of text to say not say a whole lot. There is nothing here that in any way refutes CC having great TDs.

Okay so then you have zero examples confirmed as to who he stuffed & u were obviously only supposed to read past the first sentence or 4 if you want but within 3 I asked for an example .. short and sweet.. then you ducked because...

he stuffed nothing but beta cruiserweight is loserweight or lighter takedown attemts during his entire pride career and failed to defend them against these top cruiserweight sub 230 lbs beta boys. Somebody like francis would projectile those cruiserweight manlets out the arena like a super f$#%n smash bros home run in 1 punch that barely just grazed them (and a takedown shot would launch their entire manlet limp carcass too even if they stuff/sprawl. It counts as a strike... like a Goldberg spear and they die anyway)

 

[Make Sherdog Great Again]

Insecure Pride widows getting all butt-hurt after every big UFC HW fight never gets old.

 

[Lee_]

Okay so then you have zero examples confirmed as to who he stuffed & u were obviously only supposed to read past the first sentence or 4 if you want but within 3 I asked for an example .. short and sweet.. then you ducked because...

he stuffed nothing but beta cruiserweight is loserweight or lighter takedown attemts during his entire pride career and failed to defend them against these top cruiserweight sub 230 lbs beta boys. Somebody like francis would projectile those cruiserweight manlets out the arena like a super f$#%n smash bros home run in 1 punch that barely just grazed them (and a takedown shot would launch their entire manlet limp carcass too even if they stuff/sprawl. It counts as a strike... like a Goldberg spear and they die anyway)

Are you like 12 years old?

 

[snugglecakes]

Are you like 12 years old?

Are you 72? You have a yester year fake martial artist as your avatar that only an okay boomer era would idolize alongside the simpage of all the usual suspects from the manlet pride era. It all adds up. The only missing piece is a claim from you that Bruce Lee would wing Chun slap block his way to the ufc title if he were alive today.

It's not my fault that your position gets annihilated in so many aspects that it requires 3 essays deep delving into it.

 

[Lee_]

Are you 72? You have a yester year fake martial artist as your avatar that only an okay boomer era would idolize alongside the simpage of all the usual suspects from the manlet pride era. It all adds up. The only missing piece is a claim from you that Bruce Lee would wing Chun slap block his way to the ufc title if he were alive today.

It's not my fault that your position gets annihilated in so many aspects that it requires 3 essays deep delving into it.

Good by kid, you're blocked. When you grow up, we can talk.

 

[pinero]

Crocop was damn near killed in his UFC debut by a gatekeeper.

View attachment 972299


Fedor did abysmally when competing in sanctioned fights, including losing to a 40 year old MW and getting knocked out of the first round of the strikeforce GP that DC effortlessly won.

These were actual Pride pro fighters Fedor faced.

martin lazarov (0-2)
levon lagilava (1-3)
hiroya takada (1-3)
mihail apostolov (0-1)
ryushi yanagisawa (24-25)
lee hasdell (9-14)
chris haseman (20-17)
gary goodridge (23-22)
yuji nagata (0-2)
naoya ogawa (7-2)
zulu (9-9)
hong man choi (4-5)
jaideep singh (2-3)

Pride revisionism stems solely from nostalgia.