Motor Racing 2023

[TheNinja]

It isn't always as simple as just bringing a softer compound. The construction of the tire and actual makeup of the compound play a massive role.

It wasn't that many years ago that entire seasons were spent driving around at a reduced pace conserving the tires and never pushing because that was quicker overall compared to doing fast laps and needing to pit.

Unfortunately it seems Pirelli don't really have the goods in terms of being able to provide a tire that provides a pace benefit after a stop but still has the durability to allow a driver to push through a stint. I hate to bash a company or supplier, but really is the feeling I get.

Examples of how this plays out include the 2004 French Grand Prix, with Michael Schumacher winning on a maximum attack 4-stop strategy.
In IMSA a few years back, the difference between the Michelin tires on the GTLM cars compared to the Hankooks on the prototypes.
Similar could be seen when Super GT and DTM shared a technical rulebook, but different tires. The DTM cars ran a spec Hankook, whereas the Super GT cars ran an open tire that not only was faster, but also more durable, with some teams able to make a single set last a 300km race (the same length as a GP).

The reverse was also happened in this years Bathurst 1000, where softer rubber was used which pretty much killed the racing due to poor durability meaning everyone just cruised around.

TL;DR, lots more than just bring softer rubber, tires are an absurdly complex problem and probably involve a lot of black magic as well

I've always wondered that as well. Just conserve tires and don't make pit stops. What does a pit stop cost you? 26 seconds or so? Does anyone know why Perelli is the manufacturer for all tires btw?

 

[legatoblues]

I've always wondered that as well. Just conserve tires and don't make pit stops. What does a pit stop cost you? 26 seconds or so? Does anyone know why Perelli is the manufacturer for all tires btw?

Pit stop loss will change from track to track depending on the length of the pit lane, but yes, offhand I'd expect somewhere between 18-28 seconds.

Pirelli being the sole manufacturer because they're contracted to be. F1 used to follow an open tire formula (also known as a tire war), where different tire manufacturers could supply teams, effectively putting those tire brands in competition with each other. A positive of this is that the tire company must develop good tires to succeed, but then that comes at the cost of imbalance if one brand turns out to be significantly better than the other, meaning that it can be perceived that a car winning is because of the tires, rather than the driver or team.

F1 (and almost all other top level professional championships) now use a "control tyre" formula - where 1 manufacturer supplies identical tires for the entire field, so that the tires are not a performance variable. There are a lot of obvious benefits to this, but one negative is that the lack of competition can be seen to impact the quality of the tires produced. We've seen Pirelli receive criticism for this, at one point making tires that were extremely fragile prone to failure, at another point having tires that were extremely durable but provided terrible performance, and so on. Having said that, it's definitely not an easy job, and I'm not suggesting that another brand could just come along an automatically do better.

 

[ralphc1]

I've always wondered that as well. Just conserve tires and don't make pit stops. What does a pit stop cost you? 26 seconds or so? Does anyone know why Perelli is the manufacturer for all tires btw?

The time lost on a pit stop depends on the track layout. Some have longer in and out roads. There used to be more ways for teams to work race strategy using fuel and tires. They could start on lower fuel levels to be faster early in the race and easier on tires. Now the car has to have a full load of fuel on board and can't have fuel added during the race. Teams used to be able to choose how many of each compound of tires they get. Now, all teams get 2 sets of hard tires, 3 sets of mediums and 8 sets of softs.

I can't say for certain but I suspect Pirelli pays Formula One a lot of money to be the tire supplier. That is how most sanctioning bodies do it. I found this,

https://f1chronicle.com/how-much-do-f1-tyres-cost/

[/Pirelli, an Italian manufacturer, currently holds the contract for supplying F1 tyres for all races. The tyre company pays F1 for the privilege and rights to provide the tyres for all the teams in return for the opportunity to hopefully increase their tyre sales due to the prestige of being associated with such a glamorous sport.QUOTE]

The same article says it costs each team about $35,000 per car per race for tires.

 

[ralphc1]

Tentative agreement on the strikes in Las Vegas hotels should avert a strike for the race weekend.

 

[TheNinja]

The time lost on a pit stop depends on the track layout. Some have longer in and out roads. There used to be more ways for teams to work race strategy using fuel and tires. They could start on lower fuel levels to be faster early in the race and easier on tires. Now the car has to have a full load of fuel on board and can't have fuel added during the race. Teams used to be able to choose how many of each compound of tires they get. Now, all teams get 2 sets of hard tires, 3 sets of mediums and 8 sets of softs.

I can't say for certain but I suspect Pirelli pays Formula One a lot of money to be the tire supplier. That is how most sanctioning bodies do it. I found this,

https://f1chronicle.com/how-much-do-f1-tyres-cost/

I think the idea that F1 tells them how much fuel they have to carry and that no refilling during the race is just so stupid. What's the point? Safety in the pit lane basically? I like the teams to have as many of their own options as possible so they can adjust strategies. That's why I like when it starts to rain. They have to decide if/when intermediate and wet tires

 

[fica]

biggest mistake they made was fuel limit. and no refueling.. now people push the limits but not like they would if they would be able to get fuel with tiers on theur pit stops

 

[Yorick]

yea, one or two fires and refueling is banned.
just be safer.

 

[legatoblues]

I think the idea that F1 tells them how much fuel they have to carry and that no refilling during the race is just so stupid. What's the point? Safety in the pit lane basically? I like the teams to have as many of their own options as possible so they can adjust strategies. That's why I like when it starts to rain. They have to decide if/when intermediate and wet tires

There are a bunch of different reasons, but the main one for no refueling is safety in the pits.

An important side effect (or factor) is the impact on overtaking. The switch away from refueling saw an immediate and sizable increase in the number of overtakes in each race, as drivers now actually had to get the job done on track, rather than actively trying to stay away from other cars and instead basically running the race as a solo time trial. The Michael Schumacher 4 stop win I mentioned recently, amazing performance and one of my favourite ever. Whilst it absolutely was a great duel between Schumacher and Alonso, they never went wheel to wheel on track.

There is a balance to strike, I do love me some divergent pit strategies and wish we had more of that, but refuelling made for races being run in a very different way.

Also throw back to races in that era where a team like Sauber or BAR would do a 1 stop strategy, basically destroying the race of everyone else that ended up stuck behind them lol

 

[Rawex]

An important side effect (or factor) is the impact on overtaking.

Also throw back to races in that era where a team like Sauber or BAR would do a 1 stop strategy, basically destroying the race of everyone else that ended up stuck behind them lol

Back then they didnt have DRS so dont think getting stuck behind a car with 1 stop strategy would be an issue and if it is, blame the driver not refueling. Might be an issue in Monaco but thats more about the track than anything else.

 

[Yorick]

Did they fix the freakin holes in the road in Vegas or what?
ridiculous.

 

[fica]

I k ow America lives clowns for their sport athletes but come on turning f1 into American clown show is not needed. Keep it to clowns in American sport rest of.the world is not.interested to be amused busy asking syltupid questions to drivers and to.see them walk like maneken down the line for introduction and have his signature move lime they do in nba nfl or MLB all.stars or in real games

 

[ralphc1]

I k ow America lives clowns for their sport athletes but come on turning f1 into American clown show is not needed. Keep it to clowns in American sport rest of.the world is not.interested to be amused busy asking syltupid questions to drivers and to.see them walk like maneken down the line for introduction and have his signature move lime they do in nba nfl or MLB all.stars or in real games

I tried Google translate but it doesn't know what you are trying to say.

Formula One is run by some of the stupidest people on planet Earth. They have been ruining the racing for years. Sky sports decided they wanted more races in the US to take advantage of a potential large market. They decided they wanted to race on the Las Vegas strip under the lights in November. They didn't look at the average weather. A November race in the daylight would have a chance to have a warmer track surface when a night race will be on a cold track. A night race in September would be a little warmer but desserts can get cold after the sun goes down.

The people who live in Las Vegas hate having their streets shut down. The race wasn't the draw that it was assumed it would be. Tickets didn't sell and the hotels weren't able to sell rooms at the high prices they set and had to keep dropping their prices.

 

[fica]

I tried Google translate but it doesn't know what you are trying to say.

Formula One is run by some of the stupidest people on planet Earth. They have been ruining the racing for years. Sky sports decided they wanted more races in the US to take advantage of a potential large market. They decided they wanted to race on the Las Vegas strip under the lights in November. They didn't look at the average weather. A November race in the daylight would have a chance to have a warmer track surface when a night race will be on a cold track. A night race in September would be a little warmer but desserts can get cold after the sun goes down.

The people who live in Las Vegas hate having their streets shut down. The race wasn't the draw that it was assumed it would be. Tickets didn't sell and the hotels weren't able to sell rooms at the high prices they set and had to keep dropping their prices.

American sports are tailor made for Clownshows you just have to watch them when Introduction is happening. They all have their signature walk dance move and so on Profesional sports like football/soccer handball tennis rugby f1 they do not do that so like I said keep it to clown sports. This clown show works with athletes that want to run their mouths and do stuff like sunglasses in door or night like guy in Boulder but it is ridiculous to have it with professional athletes who just want to answer required questions and move on with extra stuff that does not involve sport

 

[Gunny]

Ferrari looks to be in excellent position for tomorrow. They’ve had qualifying pace all season but the car is brutal on its tires compared to Red Bull. The cold temps should mitigate that affect to an extent. Leclerc could actually win this.

 

[Yorick]

drop this travesty of a race seriously.
shit course, bunch of irrelevant 'stars', unnecessary unappealing hoopla.

 

[Via Heeto]

total pr nightmare for f1 here. they came in and basically did everything they could to flip the bird to the locals. the only thing they did to interact with them was do everything they could to make sure that nobody could see the race for free

then in the practice round it ended after 8 minutes. refund? hell no! credit to shop at their online store.

i don't know of a single person here in vegas who didn't hate the entire ordeal. and they completely fucked up the strip

 

[legatoblues]

i don't know of a single person here in vegas who didn't hate the entire ordeal. and they completely fucked up the strip

Sounds like a normal street race to me

 

[rearnakedchoke]

I missed the race for the most part and caught a replay. Was there a dew /mist that came over the track later in the race? It almost looked like a wet race, but everyone was on slicks.

 

[Iron Mang]

I missed the race for the most part and caught a replay. Was there a dew /mist that came over the track later in the race? It almost looked like a wet race, but everyone was on slicks.

No, there was no mist or anything. It was dry all race. There were a few DNFs. Lando had a bad crash and looked like it was mechanical failure. Leclerc had a nice final lap to pass Checo and take back second place. Overall, it was a decent race.

Vegas has enough money. I don't know why they just don't build a real track with the strip in the background.

 

[rearnakedchoke]

No, there was no mist or anything. It was dry all race. There were a few DNFs. Lando had a bad crash and looked like it was mechanical failure. Leclerc had a nice final lap to pass Checo and take back second place. Overall, it was a decent race.

Vegas has enough money. I don't know why they just don't build a real track with the strip in the background.

Yeah. Watched the highlights. When Charles locked up and checo over took him, there was smoke that I mistook for mist.