Motor Racing 2023

A rumor that has been strongly implied by multiple teams but not positively confirmed is that Toto blocked (or effectively blocked) a petition from all the other teams to revoke Sainz' penalty. I say "effectively" because Merc didn't actually have a mechanism to do a block but vowed to file an appeal if the penalty was revoked that would have thrown a major monkey wrench in the weekend. I buy it because: it's perfectly consistent with Toto's regular MO, has been hinted at by multiple teams, saved them from losing second place in the constructors championship this weekend and is a cogent explanation for why Merc was, otherwise, sucking up to F1 and the event all weekend long.
 
Gunny said:
A rumor that has been strongly implied by multiple teams but not positively confirmed is that Toto blocked (or effectively blocked) a petition from all the other teams to revoke Sainz' penalty. I say "effectively" because Merc didn't actually have a mechanism to do a block but vowed to file an appeal if the penalty was revoked that would have thrown a major monkey wrench in the weekend. I buy it because: it's perfectly consistent with Toto's regular MO, has been hinted at by multiple teams, saved them from losing second place in the constructors championship this weekend and is a cogent explanation for why Merc was, otherwise, sucking up to F1 and the event all weekend long.
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Well, they are in a race for second with Ferrari. Are you convinced Ferrari wouldn’t do the same with Merc?

And to be fair, everyone was saying the race and event was great after the race. Toto was right for saying it was only FP1 and to give it time.
 
Well Leclerc had the right idea at the end (maybe the first time he’s had an idea) but failed to see it through. He needed to back all the way up to George and slow him down another second.
 
Gunny said:
Well Leclerc had the right idea at the end (maybe the first time he’s had an idea) but failed to see it through. He needed to back all the way up to George and slow him down another second.
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yeah. He couldn’t even get that right.
 
legatoblues said:
Certainly has to be one of the greatest performances over a season we've ever seen.
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The really notable part was no DNFs and ran every lap. He knocked enough other cars out but managed to keep running.
 
F1 is talking again about changing the format for the weekends with a sprint race. They are proposing having one practice on Friday followed by qualifying for the sprint race. Saturday would be the sprint race followed by qualifying for the main race. There is also talk of reversing all or part of the field for the sprint race. If they have a different qualifying session for the sprint race and reverse the field, it encourages sandbagging.

Many racing series in my area have a sprint race where they take the five fastest cars from qualifying and start them in inverse order in a money race. Some do give some points for the sprint race. The cars still start in the order they qualified in for the race.

Having the sprint race a couple of hours before qualifying could make drivers very cautious in the sprint race so they don't damage the car for qualifying.

With the spending caps and the limited number of parts before starting grid penalties, it doesn't make sense for back marker teams to even run the sprint races. It also doesn't make sense to keep running in a regular race if you aren't in the top ten. You are just putting more time on parts for no gain. F1 really should have points for all 20 cars in each race instead of just the top 10. It used to be that there was a chance of several of the fast teams dropping out but that is a thing of the past now. Crashes usually happen on the start of the race so by halfway through it's pretty clear who will be in the top ten.
 
legatoblues said:
Certainly has to be one of the greatest performances over a season we've ever seen.
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yeah before people had dominant cars but this was dominant car driven by just dominant hands down best drivers who pushed every limit there is
 
I hate the talk of reverse grids. Just pick the starting order randomly at that point. If it’s for show, do whatever you want tbh. If it’s for points and money at the end of the season, artificial excitement is just dumb.
 
My standout races for 2023. There's probably more, but these are the ones that come to mind when I think "race of the year"

Formula E:
Cape Town
Berlin 1 & 2
Monaco
Portland

F1:
Monza
Singapore
Brazil
Las Vegas

WEC:
Spa
Le Mans

Indycar:
Texas
Barber

V8 Supercars:
Tailem Bend Saturday
Surfers Paradise Sunday

MotoGP:
Phillip Island

If I was forced to pick one single race, it would probably be the 24 Hours of Le Mans. This years running was incredible start to finish.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
I hate the talk of reverse grids. Just pick the starting order randomly at that point. If it’s for show, do whatever you want tbh. If it’s for points and money at the end of the season, artificial excitement is just dumb.
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They are trying to find ways to get some passing going on instead of just having a parade but, as I said, it will just lead to sandbagging in qualifying for the sprint race. When they used the sprint race results for starting positions in the main race, it made the race meaningful. Now aside from the top 8 there is no reason to run hard.

As far as I can find, the prize money in Formula One is based on constructor points and distributed at the end of the season. Does that mean that there are no monetary prizes given out at each race and all they get is trophies for the top three and points for the top 10? In the sprint race there are points for the top 8, 8 for first down to one for eighth.
 
ralphc1 said:
They are trying to find ways to get some passing going on instead of just having a parade but, as I said, it will just lead to sandbagging in qualifying for the sprint race. When they used the sprint race results for starting positions in the main race, it made the race meaningful. Now aside from the top 8 there is no reason to run hard.

As far as I can find, the prize money in Formula One is based on constructor points and distributed at the end of the season. Does that mean that there are no monetary prizes given out at each race and all they get is trophies for the top three and points for the top 10? In the sprint race there are points for the top 8, 8 for first down to one for eighth.
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Yeah, I don’t know why the passing has slowed. Before there was drs, there was plenty of passing. I’m not a car nerd in terms of speed etc, but the passing with just slip stream was fun. Drs is good too, but not sure why it’s needed.
 
Passing availability can be augmented by course design IMO.
Maybe F1 should try a tri oval like IndyCar.
what a concept.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
Yeah, I don’t know why the passing has slowed. Before there was drs, there was plenty of passing. I’m not a car nerd in terms of speed etc, but the passing with just slip stream was fun. Drs is good too, but not sure why it’s needed.
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The cars have gotten so dependent on airflow to provide traction then they made the tires wider. The wider car and downforce packages mean the trailing car is running in disturbed air that causes more drag.
 
rearnakedchoke said:
Yeah, I don’t know why the passing has slowed. Before there was drs, there was plenty of passing. I’m not a car nerd in terms of speed etc, but the passing with just slip stream was fun. Drs is good too, but not sure why it’s needed.
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This might be a perception thing - there are absolutely many more passes in F1 races today than there were prior to DRS.
Graph that I can't post for some reason...

Reddit stuff
This years Dutch GP had the most overtakes in history (188, but obviously aided by the conditions).

More stats nerd stuff here: https://racingpass.net/ and here: nerd stats

What it could be is the overtaking/racing "feeling" different. A DRS drive by is a different thing to watch compared to a crazy wheel to wheel exchange, but any series needs to find a balance between lots of "easy" passes and few "challenging" passes. (the old quality vs quantity thing)
 
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legatoblues said:
This might be a perception thing - there are absolutely many more passes in F1 races today than there were prior to DRS.
Graph that I can't post for some reason...

Reddit stuff
This years Dutch GP had the most overtakes in history (188, but obviously aided by the conditions).

More stats nerd stuff here: https://racingpass.net/ and here: nerd stats

What it could be is the overtaking/racing "feeling" different. A DRS drive by is a different thing to watch compared to a crazy wheel to wheel exchange, but any series needs to find a balance between lots of "easy" passes and few "challenging" passes. (the old quality vs quantity thing)
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The passing in the Dutch GP mostly happened because of pit stops to change tires because of rain twice in the race. There was rain in one part of the track on the first lap. Some changed sooner so those behind passed them then they pitted later and got passed so it wasn't really racing passes. LeClerc stopped to change to intermediate tires and they didn't have the tires ready so he dropped way back. Zhou Guanyu got into second place by getting on intermediates early but crashed and ended up 17th. There were also several 5 second penalties that were served on pit stops allowing them to be passed while spending that extra time in the pits.
 
ralphc1 said:
The passing in the Dutch GP mostly happened because of pit stops to change tires because of rain twice in the race. There was rain in one part of the track on the first lap. Some changed sooner so those behind passed them then they pitted later and got passed so it wasn't really racing passes. LeClerc stopped to change to intermediate tires and they didn't have the tires ready so he dropped way back. Zhou Guanyu got into second place by getting on intermediates early but crashed and ended up 17th. There were also several 5 second penalties that were served on pit stops allowing them to be passed while spending that extra time in the pits.
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Those stats only look at actual on track overtakes and don't count changes of position that happen from one car on the track passing another in the pits.

But the relevant point is that there is more that goes into how "good" a race is than just the sheer volume of overtakes.
 
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