Power hand forward (Right hand lead) - The Orthodox MMA stance

[TheMaster]

I consider true Orthodox Stance in MMA as power hand forward I.e. right hand and right leg lead at a 45 degree angle for a right handed fighter.

I know this is opposite from boxing but the reasons as follows (in fact there are rationale for this stance in straight boxing or striking also but this is about the stance in MMA not just striking).

- If you come from a grappling background like I do with Judo (wrestling is the same), the right arm and leg is the lead and will be your entry to throw and clinch and how you practice. So against a striker you will dominate the standing clinch not just for throws but for control and to land strikes from 'dirty boxing'.

- With the smaller gloves,you can land more damage with the lead hand (I don't 'jab' but throw power straights with both hands)
The rear hand left has sufficient power also to KO.

- Makes sense for the power hand forward both for control and in a situation where the transition form striking to grappling can happen very quickly.

- Lead right hook and parry-hook is there.

Basically there are many positives.
I think it is just convention that people use an 'orthodox' boxing lead left as that's what boxing coaches are used to.

For me, especially coming from a WC background I will be square or neutral facing in when infighting in close so adjust from the right hand lead.

Bruce Lee famously advocated this also and I do believe on this he was ahead of his time and correct.



Orthodox MMA stance is right hand lead for a right handed fighter as far as I am concerned and fully fits both grappling and the adjustments for MMA striking.


https://shortboxing.com/right-handed-southpaw-boxers-advantages/

There is a good article discussing is here in MMA it is left hand lead 60% of the time compared with 90% in boxing so there is recognized a difference and it is almost 50-50 on choice, the only reason it is still slightly favoured left lead is due to boxing trainers being familiar.

https://blackbeltmag.com/mmas-deliberate-southpaws-bruce-lees-jabs-vs-boxings-power-punches

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Just to play devils advocate

Grapplers got that power lead. But almost all Muay Thai, boxing, and kickboxing is conventional. And guess what? MMA starts on the feet.

An mma stance is much more similar to a traditional strikers stance than it is a hunched over clinching stance like wrestling, bjj, etc.
Sambo has this figured out and they even use gi’s

Unless youre coming from a TKD background you should probably stand orthodox when you start.

Judo does stand upright like an mma stance kind of. But they are literally reaching for lapels, collars, and sleeves. In an mma fight as soon as you reach out to grip fight me ima hit you with that 3 piece so quick.

 

[shincheckin]

There's benefits to having the power hand the lead hand. Nothing new to this concept.

I would disagree with your statements of orthodox vs southpaw, orthodox stance is orthodox stance regardless if your power hand is in front or back

 

[TheMaster]

Just to play devils advocate

Grapplers got that power lead. But almost all Muay Thai, boxing, and kickboxing is conventional. And guess what? MMA starts on the feet.

An mma stance is much more similar to a traditional strikers stance than it is a hunched over clinching stance like wrestling, bjj, etc.
Sambo has this figured out and they even use gi’s

Unless youre coming from a TKD background you should probably stand orthodox when you start.

Judo does stand upright like an mma stance kind of. But they are literally reaching for lapels, collars, and sleeves. In an mma fight as soon as you reach out to grip fight me ima hit you with that 3 piece so quick.

The point is you can strike or grapple with the dominant hand forward and it won't be telegraphed and you get to use all your tools. Your skill sets are in sync and this is why it is better.

I kind of understand why standard boxing they favoured the power hand rear since no grappling and less power with the gloves on.
But it makes no sense in MMA it's just a residue of having boxing coaches who favour the left lead and don't know grappling so they mostly can't teach anything else.

With a left lead you become a one armed fighter, you take even more power from your weak hand and it gets reduced to a feeler.
Instead you should place the weaker hand back to equalize and then you got two power hands as well as the ability to throw and grapple- easy decision.

 

[Stevenseagull53]

The point is you can strike or grapple with the dominant hand forward and it won't be telegraphed and you get to use all your tools. Your skill sets are in sync and this is why it is better..

You will grapple worse since your push offs will be with the left foot and left arm, which is much weaker if you are right handed.

 

[TheMaster]

You will grapple worse since your push offs will be with the left foot and left arm, which is much weaker if you are right handed.

No
That might be what someone without a grappling background would think but it's not how Judo and wrestling work...

 

[Stevenseagull53]

No
That might be what someone without a grappling background would think but it's not how Judo and wrestling work...

Imagine if we are going to push each other in opposite directions.. you would ideally as a right hander stand in an orthodox position then. This is not rocket science.

 

[TheMaster]

Imagine if we are going to push each other in opposite directions.. you would ideally as a right hander stand in an orthodox position then. This is not rocket science.

It's more about getting your dominant arm and hip in to lead for the throw or sweep etc.
With your strong arm leading you control the body more.

 

[Stevenseagull53]

It's more about getting your dominant arm and hip in to lead for the throw or sweep etc.
With your strong arm leading you control the body more.

No you don't. When you flip something over, or push it, you want to do that with right side back and turn over with your strong side, that is the right.

Exact same principle as in boxing and the right hand.

 

[Stevenseagull53]

Bruce Lee was wrong, Boxing was right.

 

[TheMaster]

No you don't. When you flip something over, or push it, you want to do that with right side back and turn over with your strong side, that is the right.

Exact same principle as in boxing and the right hand.

Lol
Why are you arguing something you obviously don't know wtf you are talking about?
You obviously never trained grappling.

In grappling you lead with strong arm and hip

Note that Karo fought with a left lead probably because that's all the striking coaches knew. But he always had to switch to a right lead when he clinched and executed throws. So this was a limitation ,he would have been better off with a right lead for striking also.

Judo Olympian Nastula (who did amazingly well for MMA debuting against the elite) stood in the correct power hand forward stance.


More


Left lead is for straight boxing. For MMA, it is right hand lead preferrably but since most MMA guys learn striking from pure striking coaches there is this confusion in their stances.

There are arguments for both, but IMO in a sport that bridges striking and grappling and with more power with smaller gloves it is power hand forward is more complete for multiple reasons.

 

[Stevenseagull53]

Lol
Why are you arguing something you obviously don't know wtf you are talking about?
You obviously never trained grappling.

In grappling you lead with strong arm and hip

Note that Karo fought with a left lead probably because that's all the striking coaches knew. But he always had to switch to a right lead when he clinched and executed throws. So this was a limitation ,he would have been better off with a right lead for striking also.

Judo Olympian Nastula (who did amazingly well for MMA debuting against the elite) stood in the correct power hand forward stance.


More


Left lead is for straight boxing. For MMA, it is right hand lead preferrably but since most MMA guys learn striking from pure striking coaches there is this confusion in their stances.

There are arguments for both, but IMO in a sport that bridges striking and grappling and with more power with smaller gloves it is power hand forward is more complete for multiple reasons.

i

Wrestlers start standing squared, not with any side forward

 

[TheMaster]

i

Wrestlers start standing squared, not with any side forward

And they lead with the dominant right hip when they throw...

 

[Stevenseagull53]

And they lead with the dominant right hip when they throw...

Because they rotate.. You can't rotate your strong side striking if you stand right hand forward

 

[DoctorTaco]

For me, especially coming from a WC background

Youve studies wing Chun?

 

[II Muchetto II]

It depends if you have a strong background in something before you start. If you have a strong stand up background with a orthodox stance, you may find yourself training your grappling from this stance.

If you have a strong background in grappling with a southpaw stance, you may develop your stand up from this stance.

If you've "mastered" a martial art before transitioning to MMA, you tend to work around what you are best at doing, so you will have a advantage in some aspect of the fight.

A lot of people who train MMA with no background are very proficient in both stances, and change stance a lot. There's no magic formula to fighting. Everyone's different and should be developed that way

 

[TheMaster]

It depends if you have a strong background in something before you start. If you have a strong stand up background with a orthodox stance, you may find yourself training your grappling from this stance.

If you have a strong background in grappling with a southpaw stance, you may develop your stand up from this stance.

If you've "mastered" a martial art before transitioning to MMA, you tend to work around what you are best at doing, so you will have a advantage in some aspect of the fight.

A lot of people who train MMA with no background are very proficient in both stances, and change stance a lot. There's no magic formula to fighting. Everyone's different and should be developed that way

Agreed.
Anyway we can get out of the idea that in MMA 'orthodox' is left lead, it is not. Many other considerations and variables so at most we can say there is no real orthodox in mma or right lead is as 'orthodox' as left.

I would still argue that all things being equal,for someone starting out right hand lead makes more sense as stronger for grappling and in striking there is no big advantage for left lead either.
But if u can get good at both even better.

 

[Woldog]

Sounds like a roundabout way of being a southpaw.

 

[TheMaster]

Sounds like a roundabout way of being a southpaw.

A roundabout way of saying MMA is not boxing, 'orthodox' is not the same in MMA as in boxing and there are many more options, strategies, techniques and methods that apply in MMA that boxing has no practice of and that the received wisdom of standing lead left has no real basis in MMA along with other boxing 'orthodoxies' like the fact the guard doesn't work anywhere near as well, clinch fighting changes things alot etc etc

 

[Stevenseagull53]

A roundabout way of saying MMA is not boxing, 'orthodox' is not the same in MMA as in boxing and there are many more options, strategies, techniques and methods that apply in MMA that boxing has no practice of and that the received wisdom of standing lead left has no real basis in MMA along with other boxing 'orthodoxies' like the fact the guard doesn't work anywhere near as well, clinch fighting changes things alot etc etc

Yes boxing clearly doesn't work outside of boxing.

This is what happens when you have the good sense to check low kicks. The boxer steamrolls..