Prime CC was a whole different animal

[moreorless87]

I'll give you Takada and Wandy. Now explain:

Kevin Randleman
Mark Hunt
Nog
Fedor

No shame in losing to any of those guys, but losing to all four in your prime does not make you the unstoppable force that people claim Mirko was. Me not knowing the Takada fight was a work does not change that fact.

Has anyone said he was unstoppable though?

As far as those fights go I would say Fedor was the only one he really looked like he was neutralized against and even then he had his moments.

Yeah. He "declined so fast and so badly" that he ended his career going 10-0 avenging his losses to Gonzaga and Roy Nelson during the run, facing some decent guys and winning the Rizin HW Grand Prix. Then 7-1 in K-1 (with the sole loss being very controversial and to one of the best HW kickboxers of all time) since his return to kickboxing, while also winning the last K-1 Grand Prix (although this edition was washed down it was still the most prestigious title) in the process and beating 2 top 5ers at the time.

Def does not sound like one of the (if not the most) impressive runs to finish one's combat sport career.

Cro Cop's poor UFC form had more to do with recurring injuries requiring surgeries (similar to Shogun), not adapating to the cage well enough, and not juicing for injury recovery/training time, which was back on the menu after the UFC exit.

A big factor of course is who he was beating, one aspect were I don't think he dropped off nearly as much was as an anti grappler and he did face quite a few grapplers in that late run.

He was never truely shot I'd agree but he also wasnt nearly as good by his second UFC run as he was at his peak and had to adapt his style considetrably.

 

[Boomb]

Cro Cop has a special place in my heart as he's the one that really got me in MMA.

 

[DoctorsStoppage]

You can tell by their technique and body movement (particularly footwork) that when CC fought Fedor they were both P.R.I.M.E. athletes.

IMO the best HW title fight of all time. Rarely you get to see two excellent fighters in their prime, slugging it out for the belt.

it's called intimidation and it's been a tactic in fighting since the beginning of time. Cro Cop did it to Herring, Mike Tyson did it to his opponents, Ngannou is doing it to most of his opponents. fight game psychology.

Also knockouts. Tyson would knock you out, whether you were scared or not. Same goes for cc.

Dude, he lost to Nog, Randleman, Fedor, Hunt, and drew to Wandy and Takada all before coming to the UFC and falling off.

Great fighter, fun to watch, a GOAT of his era, but he wasn't some unbeatable tank like some people (TS) like to remember him. Even in his prime.

I didn't say he is unbeatable, I said he move phenomenally well for a HW, he is extremely explosive, fast, agile and precise, he has sense of attack and defence, with second to none kickboxing skills. We have NEVER again witnessed a HW that moved like him.

Lame ass Brock Lesnar would absolutely murder prime Cro Cop, much less guys like Cain or DC, and you know it.
Can't speak for Gane yet, but Francis is light years ahead of this version of Cro Cop as far as a ground game or sub defense goes. He's also a legit HW.

You guys live in a dream world

CC broke Sapp's orbital bone with 1 punch. Sapp was 380 pounds, steroid mountain, who beat Hoost twice. Hoost is K1 #2 goat. Brawk didn't like getting hit....

Ps fuck USADA

Fawk it

 

[mirko>anyone]

Deflect all you want, but that's a large list of fights he didn't win when he was supposedly invincible. I'm sorry the past isn't as you remember, but losing to Kevin Randleman and Mark Hunt in your prime is a pretty good indicator that you were never unstoppable.

It’s clear as day you’ve never seen any of those fights though lol. The Hunt decision was highly controversial.

Lol at you bringing up the Wand Takada fights. Go ahead and double and even triple down on your ignorance but this is the clearest “show you’ve never seen the fights without saying it”. The straw-man you created about invincibility is weak too cuz nobody said he is unbeatable.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Lame ass Brock Lesnar would absolutely murder prime Cro Cop, much less guys like Cain or DC, and you know it.
Can't speak for Gane yet, but Francis is light years ahead of this version of Cro Cop as far as a ground game or sub defense goes. He's also a legit HW.

You guys live in a dream world

Brock Lesnar didn't murder anyone but Frank Mir and an old tiny Randy Couture. he couldn't even murder old fucking Mark Hunt while he was on ALL THE STEROIDS

 

[Hatorade]

CC broke Sapp's orbital bone with 1 punch. Sapp was 380 pounds, steroid mountain, who beat Hoost twice. Hoost is K1 #2 goat. Brawk didn't like getting hit....

Jose Aldo would probably beat Brock in a K1 fight.....Who cares?


With that said, if you look at how easily Brock Smothered Frank Mir who was a 245lb BJJ black belt, what makes you think Cro-Cop is getting out from under Brock? He would be beyond fucked 30 seconds into the fight. I actually think the past prime Cro-Cop we saw in UFC would have put up a much better fight. He'd still get smashed, but not in a few minutes. Prime CC's ground game would have been a disaster against guys like Brock, Carwin, Big Foot...etc

 

[JKS]

Was sad when he fought Schaub

Was upset when he fought Gonzaga

Yah, the Schaub loss was painful.

 

[DoctorsStoppage]

Jose Aldo would probably beat Brock in a K1 fight.....Who cares?


With that said, if you look at how easily Brock Smothered Frank Mir who was a 245lb BJJ black belt, what makes you think Cro-Cop is getting out from under Brock? He would be beyond fucked 30 seconds into the fight. I actually think the past prime Cro-Cop we saw in UFC would have put up a much better fight. He'd still get smashed, but not in a few minutes. Prime CC's ground game would have been a disaster against guys like Brock, Carwin, Big Foot...etc

1, Mur slimed down to 245 for that fight, it was a mistake.
2. Mur basically gave up the position with that flying knee.
3. Brawk didn't have good takedowns.
4. CC fought off 320 lbs Waterman and KOd him. CLosest thing we'v got to Brawk.
5. Brawk has a big chance in this fight, but so does CC, who was a member of the anti-rassler unit.

 

[Royce's Gi]

His elbow game was shocking in the second fight with Gonzaga though

Well deserved payback!

 

[GOATtalks]

the best HWs that ever fought:
Fedor, Nog, CC, Barnett, Alex, Kharitonov, Werdum, Hunt, Coleman, Igor, Randleman, Herring, Fujita, Kerr..

Lol, what a shit list. Maybe you meant “best HWs in Pride”? Because only Fedor, Werdum and maybe Nog are all time top10 HW’s

 

[xMTDx]

His UFC run was underwhelming but people overlook that he had 17 fights in the preceding 2.5 yrs before his debut against Sanchez. Should have taken some time to recoup and train more the cage

 

[moreorless87]

Jose Aldo would probably beat Brock in a K1 fight.....Who cares?


With that said, if you look at how easily Brock Smothered Frank Mir who was a 245lb BJJ black belt, what makes you think Cro-Cop is getting out from under Brock? He would be beyond fucked 30 seconds into the fight. I actually think the past prime Cro-Cop we saw in UFC would have put up a much better fight. He'd still get smashed, but not in a few minutes. Prime CC's ground game would have been a disaster against guys like Brock, Carwin, Big Foot...etc

Look at Crocop/Coleman, Mirko was pretty much the only fighter ever to shut Colemans wrestling down until Randy when Mark was totally shot.

Mirko's defencive guard as well was very strong, Mir had a history of getting GnPed when he couldnt get a sub were as Mirko managed to survive half the fight under Fedor.

 

[r-harper-1]

Jose Aldo would probably beat Brock in a K1 fight.....Who cares?


With that said, if you look at how easily Brock Smothered Frank Mir who was a 245lb BJJ black belt, what makes you think Cro-Cop is getting out from under Brock? He would be beyond fucked 30 seconds into the fight. I actually think the past prime Cro-Cop we saw in UFC would have put up a much better fight. He'd still get smashed, but not in a few minutes. Prime CC's ground game would have been a disaster against guys like Brock, Carwin, Big Foot...etc

Takedown defenses was good though

 

[Fioretti]

The bess!

 

[Tairy Hesticles]

It’s clear as day you’ve never seen any of those fights though lol. The Hunt decision was highly controversial.

Lol at you bringing up the Wand Takada fights. Go ahead and double and even triple down on your ignorance but this is the clearest “show you’ve never seen the fights without saying it”. The straw-man you created about invincibility is weak too cuz nobody said he is unbeatable.

The thread is titled "Prime CC was a whole different beast" and TS is saying he's faster than Machida with HW power. Says he doesn't know how Fedor beat prime CC.

And lol, trying to explain away the Hunt loss because it was a close fight. Like I said, you're blinded by nostalgia. There are 2-3 guys in HW right now who would beat prime CC, and HW is fucking garbage right now.

 

[crodor3]

Yea, very old CC managed to avenge his losses against Gonzaga and Roy. He probably would have beaten JDS and Mir in the rematch if he didn't get the stroke that forced him to retire. But that version of CC was old, fat, bulked up, slow af, no movement, no attacks, he doesn't even resemble his prime self.

This is idiotic.

 

[tkotom]

Cool story bro.

You sound poor.

 

[DoctorsStoppage]

Look at Crocop/Coleman, Mirko was pretty much the only fighter ever to shut Colemans wrestling down until Randy when Mark was totally shot.

Mirko's defencive guard as well was very strong, Mir had a history of getting GnPed when he couldnt get a sub were as Mirko managed to survive half the fight under Fedor.

His fight with COleman was as perfect as this one. Maybe his best fight.

 

[Hatorade]

Look at Crocop/Coleman, Mirko was pretty much the only fighter ever to shut Colemans wrestling down until Randy when Mark was totally shot.

Mirko's defencive guard as well was very strong, Mir had a history of getting GnPed when he couldnt get a sub were as Mirko managed to survive half the fight under Fedor.

Colman was 41 years old in that fight. His knees were shot, and he was fucked up on pain pills. Mirko could have beat him down in the first 30 seconds if he really wanted to. That wasn't even a fight.

Comparing that to preventing 280lb Brock Lesnar (who had a better power double) from getting a takedown in a cage is just laughable. If he took down Cain and Randy with no issues, I can sure as hell guarantee you that Mirko would be almost instantly put on his back, and he would stay on his back unlike Cain and Randy.

The Outside of a legit Olympic wrestler like DC, the only fighters in MMA that are preventing a healthy Brock Lesnar from taking them down at least once are other monsters his own size with excellent grappling like Carwin or Reem. Even then, I think a healthy Lesnar would have taken either of them right down had he been 100%.

 

[Kumason]

This is simply not true.
K1 mirko was ALOT lighter in his k1 days..

You are completely missing the clear and obvious point. I commented on what this guy said:

"Cro Cop, Big Nog, Kharitonov all got much bigger later in their careers and it hurt them. ."

I said no Mirko just got older, slower and lost his ability to take damage. The greatest Mirko we ever saw was around the Randleman II, Fedor etc. fights and in those weighed 228, 225 etc. His average weight in his 11 UFC fights is 228.9 and in my post, I commented that he probably averaged 7 more pounds at the time he kind of fell apart since his prime (and it wasn't even that much). So we are talking about when he looked phenomenal to when he looked well out of prime, wtf does that have to do with K-1 (where he weighed 226.6 in his last k-1 fight of his first stint in '02) even though that's not even part of the equation and has nothing to do with what I was saying. The point is Mirko didn't get "much bigger" leading to the downfall of his abilities. Really simple stuff.