Prime JDS vs DC

[moreorless87]

I think DC had faster hands in his prime than Cain, i'm not sure what you mean other than Cain closing the distance to the clinch faster, he never had really great footwork or anything.

Faster hands I can see and maybe better footwork in terms of technique/timing but shear speed closing the distance? I think Cain was quite clearly alot quicker than DC. That was really his key to beating JDS making sure he was inside the range of Jnr's looping punchs.

 

[Hitman]

2019 DC with his high level dirty boxing and still high level wrestling destroys any version of JDS

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Prime is somewhat subjective. There are indicators but it's not an exact science. I don't think there's any reason no to count DC's fights vs. Stipe. Specially their second fight.

Anyway, you can remove those 2 Stipe losses, and DC still was hurt by strikes in at least in 6 fights, which is more than Cain was.
If you add the Stipe fights then it's 8 fights.

Being hurt doesn't necessarily mean you're in danger of being finished. Anderson made DC squeal, but he wasn't close to finishing the fight.

I think DC was out of his prime by his return to HW. He had a lot more fat on him a lot less muscle was slower and had less cardio. I think what their primes were and what the threshhold for being hurt is what we disagree on. Anderson and Stipe were the only fighters I would say hurt DC with body shots and IMO those were after his prime though DC didnt decline suoer fast like some fighters do.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Faster hands I can see and maybe better footwork in terms of technique/timing but shear speed closing the distance? I think Cain was quite clearly alot quicker than DC. That was really his key to beating JDS making sure he was inside the range of Jnr's looping punchs.

Ok, we are in agreement, I thought you might have been talking about footwork and distance control via movement and not just limited to closing the distance for clinching.

 

[moreorless87]

Ok, we are in agreement, I thought you might have been talking about footwork and distance control via movement and not just limited to closing the distance for clinching.

To be fair it wasnt just clinching, he was also throwing standup outside that but generally close in backing JDS up. Its JDS's clear weakness but you saw guys like Hunt and Stipe the first time exploited it and still didnt win. Jnr was a tough bastard back then who could take serious punishment and stay dangerous, Reem finishing him was I think the first sign his chin was seriously breaking.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

To be fair it wasnt just clinching, he was also throwing standup outside that but generally close in backing JDS up. Its JDS's clear weakness but you saw guys like Hunt and Stipe the first time exploited it and still didnt win. Jnr was a tough bastard back then who could take serious punishment and stay dangerous.

Oh i know Cain used his stand up a lot in the JDS fights. I was just talking about DC vs Cain in regards to their footwork and distance closing. I agree JDS has a clear weakness but it still takes a fighter with the right skillset to exploit it.

 

[Claude]

I think DC was out of his prime by his return to HW. He had a lot more fat on him a lot less muscle was slower and had less cardio. I think what their primes were and what the threshhold for being hurt is what we disagree on. Anderson and Stipe were the only fighters I would say hurt DC with body shots and IMO those were after his prime though DC didnt decline suoer fast like some fighters do.

He wasn't in his prime vs. Anderson? In his 7th year of career? Really?

Prime or not, he was a lot more flawed than Cain. There's a big difference between getting caugh in exchanges and simply being unable to defend strikes.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

He wasn't in his prime vs. Anderson? In his 7th year of career? Really?

Prime or not, he was a lot more flawed than Cain. There's a big difference between getting caugh in exchanges and simply being unable to defend strikes.

I don't think he was no. He started MMA very late and he was physically declining by his 7th year into his career and he didn't improve much technically as he physically declined IMO. DC's prime started pretty much with his first MMA fight.

 

[Claude]

I don't think he was no. He started MMA very late and he was physically declining by his 7th year into his career and he didn't improve much technically as he physically declined IMO. DC's prime started pretty much with his first MMA fight.

Physical prime =/= fight prime.

Sometimes your physical prime won't align with your fight prime. Specially if you start older.

It's highly unlikely to be in your fight prime in your first fight. There's always room for improvement when you're starting.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Physical prime =/= fight prime.

Sometimes your physical prime won't align with your fight prime. Specially if you start older.

It's highly unlikely to be in your fight prime in your first fight. There's always room for improvement when you're starting.

I didn't say it does, I even said that as DC physically declined he didn't improve much technically. I feel like you keep reading only parts of my post and not the whole thing.

Either read the whole thing or don't respond please, i'm tired of you making comments that you wouldn't otherwise make if you just read all of my post instead of skimming, it was only 3 sentences and it seems like you didn't even read the first 2 sentences.

It is unlikely to be in your prime in your first fight but it does happen, and DC is one of the guys that it's true for, same for someone like Fedor.

 

[Claude]

I didn't say it does, I even said that as DC physically declined he didn't improve much technically. I feel like you keep reading only parts of my post and not the whole thing.

Either read the whole thing or don't respond please, i'm tired of you making comments that you wouldn't otherwise make if you just read all of my post instead of skimming, it was only 3 sentences and it seems like you didn't even read the first 2 sentences.

It is unlikely to be in your prime in your first fight but it does happen, and DC is one of the guys that it's true for, same for someone like Fedor.

No Fedor was not in his prime in his first fight. That's even more ridiculous. His striking was nowhere near as good when he fought in Rings.

Didn't read the first part of your post.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No Fedor was not in his prime in his first fight. That's even more ridiculous. His striking was nowhere near as good when he fought in Rings.

Didn't read the first part of your post.

When I say prime I don't mean the absolute peak as a fighter as that is a much shorter duration of their career. I say Fedor's prime was 2000-2008ish. If you don't agree with that then your definition of Prime is what I call a Peak.

I feel like your definition of prime is far more narrow than most people's if you think Fedor's prime was less than 8 years.

If I were to use DC as an example to differentiate prime and peak I would say DC's prime was from the start of his career till he went back up to HW and his peak was 2010-2013.

 

[Claude]

When I say prime I don't mean the absolute peak as a fighter as that is a much shorter duration of their career. I say Fedor's prime was 2000-2008ish. If you don't agree with that then your definition of Prime is what I call a Peak.

I feel like your definition of prime is far more narrow than most people's if you think Fedor's prime was less than 8 years.

If I were to use DC as an example to differentiate prime and peak I would say DC's prime was from the start of his career till he went back up to HW and his peak was 2010-2013.

No I do consider prime and peak to be different. My estimates are:

Fedor's prime: 2002-2008 (from Schilt to Tim).
Fedor's peak: 2004-2005. (Nog, Cro-Cop).

I think DC's prime was around 2012-2019. There were no clear signs of him significantly slowing down before that.

His peak is trickier because he changed divisions but was probably sometime between 2011-2015.

 

[Hitman]

No I do consider prime and peak to be different. My estimates are:

Fedor's prime: 2002-2008 (from Schilt to Tim).
Fedor's peak: 2004-2005. (Nog, Cro-Cop).

I think DC's prime was around 2012-2019. There were no clear signs of him significantly slowing down before that.

His peak is trickier because he changed divisions but was probably sometime between 2011-2015.

I am agree with you ! Just i think you made a mistake when you wrote DC peak between 2011-2015
2011, if you considered your peak is in your prime
I think it was something like 2014-2015.... I am agree maybe if DC was at HW during this period, maybe his peak would be 2014-2016 ! Maybe the HW GOAT !