International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V12

[Denter]

Where are you seeing those numbers? Russia used to be seen as a major world power, and it's now a miserable backwater. That's without even getting to the idiocy of the invasion. If Russia is the best case for a rightist dictatorship, that's a great argument for liberalism.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/gdp-per-capita
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2021&locations=RU&start=1999
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1010660/russia-average-monthly-nominal-wage/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countri...ectancy for Russia,a 0.19% increase from 2019.

Many of these websites have little sliders to let you adjust the time period. Putin comes into power in late 1999.

Also, I was a little quick on the draw- male life expectancy has gone up almost ten years, female much less. If someone increased American household income this much, we'd crawl over broken glass to amend the constitution to make them president for life too.

You may say Russia was at rock bottom in the late 90s, and that is probably true. But the perception is that he pulled them out of the gutter and made life much better, which the numbers back up. If I were running Russia I would not have launched this war- its inexplicable to me- which just tells me that I have incomplete information.

 

[Scerpi]

I can't wait for the successful rebuild of the country when this is all over. I'm sure money will pour in like it is now with little fraud.

Fraud AND Incompetence...



Lol... Meh, just another $6 billion. Who's counting though, am I right?

 

[Denter]

Russia, who I do not support, has the greatest dearest leader the world has ever seen full stop, period.

You clearly lack reading comprehension, or are projecting your own paranoia onto other people.

 

[The Diplomat]

Fraud AND Incompetence...



Lol... Meh, just another $6 billion. Who's counting though, am I right?

AFAIK, they overestimated the value given. Which means they haven't given $6 billion, but it frees them up to give $6 billion worth of aid without congressional action.

"The first accounting error of $3 billion revealed last month triggered frustration from Republicans on the House Foreign Affairs and Armed Services committees, who believe the mistake reduced the amount of US support that went to Ukraine leading up to the counteroffensive.

“These funds could have been used for extra supplies and weapons for the upcoming counteroffensive, instead of rationing funds to last for the remainder of the fiscal year,” wrote House Foreign Affairs Chairman Michael McCaul and House Armed Services Chairman Mike Rogers in a statement last month, when the first $3 billion accounting error was publicly disclosed by the Pentagon."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/pentagon-ukraine-accounting-error/index.html

 

[Jack V Savage]

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/gdp-per-capita
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?end=2021&locations=RU&start=1999
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1010660/russia-average-monthly-nominal-wage/
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/life-expectancy#:~:text=The life expectancy for Russia,a 0.19% increase from 2019.

Many of these websites have little sliders to let you adjust the time period. Putin comes into power in late 1999.

Also, I was a little quick on the draw- male life expectancy has gone up almost ten years, female much less. If someone increased American household income this much, we'd crawl over broken glass to amend the constitution to make them president for life too.

You may say Russia was at rock bottom in the late 90s, and that is probably true. But the perception is that he pulled them out of the gutter and made life much better, which the numbers back up. If I were running Russia I would not have launched this war- its inexplicable to me- which just tells me that I have incomplete information.

Yeah, I think 1999 is a pretty bad comparison point. And the absolute numbers are pretty horrible. And the growth is driven in large part by natural resources. I think any developed country in those kinds of conditions would be revolting. And that's without even considering the lack of freedoms we take for granted or the spectacular wealth amassed by gov't officials.

 

[Jack V Savage]

You clearly lack reading comprehension, or are projecting your own paranoia onto other people.

But it is always a problem for people who want dicatorships that liberal nations consistently perform so much better across all dimensions. And for people who want religious dictatorships, what religious beliefs justify murdering dissidents?

 

[Rational Poster]

Yeah, I think 1999 is a pretty bad comparison point. And the absolute numbers are pretty horrible. And the growth is driven in large part by natural resources. I think any developed country in those kinds of conditions would be revolting. And that's without even considering the lack of freedoms we take for granted or the spectacular wealth amassed by gov't officials.

1 + 5 is 500% growth!!!!

 

[Jack V Savage]

1 + 5 is 500% growth!!!!

They're also down 24% since 2013 in per-capita GDP! That is insanely bad. And that was also from a low base! Again, no way would a gov't survive that in a civilized country.

 

[D3THRONED]

Fraud AND Incompetence...



Lol... Meh, just another $6 billion. Who's counting though, am I right?

You do realize we're clearing out old inventory and not just giving a dollar amount right? You do realize that lets us begin modernizing our entire military? You do realize that creates jobs? Man, I don't know why I expect a LITTLE bit of intelligence from this forum but who am I kidding.

 

[D3THRONED]

Fraud AND Incompetence...



Lol... Meh, just another $6 billion. Who's counting though, am I right?

Also imagine sharing this fucking twitter page lmfao

 

[SandisLL]

Yeah, I think 1999 is a pretty bad comparison point. And the absolute numbers are pretty horrible. And the growth is driven in large part by natural resources. I think any developed country in those kinds of conditions would be revolting. And that's without even considering the lack of freedoms we take for granted or the spectacular wealth amassed by gov't officials.

1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 are not quite usable reference points cos multiple obivious reasons.
Natural gas and crude oil were cheap, gold and silver too, then fertilizers and wood too were relatively cheap...

Also 1998 th financial crisis in russia because speculants miscalculated with asian stocks and appeared that didn't hedged risks properly.
About this crisis too some nationalists blamed " bad west " not their own dumb speculants....bankers in private commercial banks...

 

[SandisLL]

There ofc is realistic method to see who in reality is " printing " money more : FRS or Putin.
In early 2000 ies russian rouble was ~30 roubles for 1 USD$.
In january 2022 th it was approx 80 roubles for 1 USD$.
So we easy might see that Putin had printed money considerably more than FRS.

 

[Denter]

1 + 5 is 500% growth!!!!

You say that, but haven't lived anywhere nearly that bad. People that live through those kind of collapses always seem to cling to whoever they perceive brought them out of it.

What are we even debating? Jack asked me where I got the 500% real income increase from and the life expectancy increase from. I answered with proof. Then the debate shifted to how bad Putin was- my point was that there is a reason he has been in power so long. Certainly even you acknowledge that if he had just made things worse in Russia he wouldn't be here, 24 years later.

 

[Denter]

But it is always a problem for people who want dicatorships that liberal nations consistently perform so much better across all dimensions. And for people who want religious dictatorships, what religious beliefs justify murdering dissidents?

It depends what the dissidents are trying to do, but I can think of many reasons someone might earn a death sentence. In this very thread people have fantasized about killing Russian government officials.

Bold: We had a bonanza of basically free energy since about 1820, and global trade. That made everyone much, much richer. We've been through this before, this is wet streets cause rain fallacy.

 

[Rational Poster]

You say that, but haven't lived anywhere nearly that bad. People that live through those kind of collapses always seem to cling to whoever they perceive brought them out of it.

What are we even debating? Jack asked me where I got the 500% real income increase from and the life expectancy increase from. I answered with proof. Then the debate shifted to how bad Putin was- my point was that there is a reason he has been in power so long. Certainly even you acknowledge that if he had just made things worse in Russia he wouldn't be here, 24 years later.

It's lot easier to stay in power for a long time when you literally jail or kill your political opponents and force constitutional amendments to make you the dictator.

 

[SandisLL]

U.S economy in reality mainly is driven by service ....
Unlike russia, U.S had developed services used by all world ....

For example the same NYSE and clearing centers: all world is using this to earn money. Banks, funds, individual investors..

Then also brokerage companies, forex, intrnet service providers etc.
Software licenses alone....
Cloud services, data storage clusters etc.

 

[SandisLL]

One from Putin's success examples : gold price was ~280-330-340 $/ oz in 1998-2001 th.
Compare with current price and historical flowchart...
Will be nice scene.

Russia's economy is approx 50% commodities export.
So....if commodities prices are rising and demand peaking : doesn't matter dictator's surname, GDP will grow.

 

[7even]

Say it isn't so. This is a terrible platform. The Bell V-22 Osprey had/has a terrible record - mostly used by the U.S. Marine Corps.
Replacing the U.S. Army's Blackhawk and Apache helicopters with this 'crap' is a terrible idea.

They aren’t replacing apaches.

 

[SandisLL]

BTW everyone who is claiming that russia fears to have borders with NATO is delusional.

Let's start russia's advocates here to talk without smokescreen and boring excuses...
Better if ppl had openly posted that they are thinking that Warshaw block should be re established and maybe even really from Lisbon and Greenland till Vladivostok.

 

[Cole train]

Pardoned Wagner merc killed 1 and wounded 1 on train

No hurt people on vid but theres blood



Ukr attack not meeting expectations of west apperantly



https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/22/politics/ukraine-counteroffensive-western-assessment/index.html