Russia/Ukraine Megathread V5

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I wanna point out, Just because I have Russian Family and Belarusian family it does not give me much of an inside scoop. I'm sure they are getting blasted with their own Russian propaganda. I'm not saying I'm an authority on the subject matter. I'm seeing the same Twitter, Reddit and youtube clips and images you guys are.
 
The US is a part of NATO. It is a serious world issue.

Like I said, the border needs to be addressed, but you can't admit that being on the brink of World War 3 also needs serious attention from the US?
all we need from the US is one plane flight with blinken and a few other stooges with pens to cosign a new Minsk deal

the entire manufacturing of consent that is happening is steering us in the opposite direction. i.e. if you appease Putin, he'll invade Europe, we have to beef up NATO, Russia must be punished, Ukraine should fight to the death! American state department and its corporate media arm have got average Americans so bricked up that they can't even imagine trading some territory in Ukraine that they never heard about until a few weeks ago to end this shit
 
Yes, broadly agreed.


Dude.... The coup in 2014? Continual pushing his red lines? Talk of missile silos along the border? Bio-labs in Ukraine? Stoping water to Chrimea? NATO encroachment?

You have to be blind to say nothing has been done to Russia.

I'm not saying there things to excuse the invasion. But it's flat out delusional to paint Putin as a mad man that does such things on a whim.

Putin isn't going to be comforted or not by anything I say !?! Lol comon man

And absolutely he'd push the big red button if push came to shove. Not willingly, but he'd absolutely do it before he let Russia get steamrolled by the west.

This blinkered and blind thinking is lazy, and inexcusable these days with so much information available.

Your ignorance is a choice. And through it you and those like you enable such shit to happen.
Dafuck outta here. He ain’t doin shit. If he wanted to do something he woulda done it by now. Russia / USSR has been getting their shit pushed in for the best part of 40 years now and no leader of theirs has come close to pushing the red button.
 
that proposition should be at the center of everyone's concern, outside of Ukrainians in positions of power attempting harm reduction we all know it's not. A real recognition of the history of causes and conditions would have introduced humility into the situation. That's why it's avoided and history as this story is being told starts right around the time corrupt Yanukovych rejected EU for Putin or whatever

That's one of the issues with authoritarian dictatorships. Their populace can be of much less concern to them than in western democracies. That's not even ascribing noble intentions to western leaders (though I'd argue that relative to someone like Putin their intentions are at least not AS bad). But the nature of governments like those in the west is that (again, relatively speaking) they answer to their populace more. The results are better for their citizens simply due to SOME level of accountability.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And Putin has it. His people will always have worse lives (as will those in other nations where he wields influence with puppet governments) than those in more representative states. Which is why the Ukraine wanted out from under his boot and to align itself with the west. Of course corruption, greed, etc happen with western style governments too, but its again a matter of degrees.

And all of this bleeds over into how these different style governments interact. The west pacifying someone like Putin gives that style government credibility. Sometimes it can't be helped, sometimes it's done out of western politicians and corporations looking out for themselves. But when there are moments in history that require standing up to it and attempting to change it, those moments should be taken advantage I whatever reasonable ways are possible.
 
Empty stomachs is the tipping point for Russians, and it's not going to happen.

Maybe. We'll see when the Swiss, Swedish, American, German companies that sell them the precision parts for their agricultural equipment refuse to do business with them.

It's more complicated than just "they have abundant arible land so..."
 

No, not "maybe". It's a historical fact.

We'll see when the Swiss, Swedish, American, German companies that sell them the precision parts for their agricultural equipment refuse to do business with them.

It's more complicated than just "they have abundant arible land so..."

Something, and by that I mean common sense, tells me they'll be able to replace those parts with their own and survive.
 
That's one of the issues with authoritarian dictatorships. Their populace can be of much less concern to them than in western democracies. That's not even ascribing noble intentions to western leaders (though I'd argue that relative to someone like Putin their intentions are at least not AS bad). But the nature of governments like those in the west is that (again, relatively speaking) they answer to their populace more. The results are better for their citizens simply due to SOME level of accountability.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And Putin has it. His people will always have worse lives (as will those in other nations where he wields influence with puppet governments) than those in more representative states. Which is why the Ukraine wanted out from under his boot and to align itself with the west. Of course corruption, greed, etc happen with western style governments too, but its again a matter of degrees.

And all of this bleeds over into how these different style governments interact. The west pacifying someone like Putin gives that style government credibility. Sometimes it can't be helped, sometimes it's done out of western politicians and corporations looking out for themselves. But when there are moments in history that require standing up to it and attempting to change it, those moments should be taken advantage I whatever reasonable ways are possible.
it wouldn't have given any credibility to Putin had Ukraine been neutralized. your problem is you still believe in fairy tales.
 
Lol... can you hear yourself?

If Putin was mad or whimsical like that. He wouldn't of maintained power for so long. Call him what you want but he's not stupid.

Clown world
Are you tripping? Putin is a dictator, an intelligent one no doubt but still a dictator, that's how he's maintained power so long and he's been undoubtedly pretty popular but if you think this has been anything but a grade A fuck up you are seriously deluded.

He's not whimsical at all for not wanting Ukraine to flourish if it joins the EU. He's pretty much said many times that he consider Russia and part of Ukraine and it's pretty clear that Russians view Ukraine as very similar to themselves which is why Putin has had to sell this to his own people as a 'special operation' to denazify Ukraine and free the Ukrainian people from their oppressors. Now he's desperately scrabbling to control the narrative so that the average Russian doesn't turn against him, to the extent that he's made it a illegal to say anything negative about the military with up to 15 years in prison and is shutting down the internet to stop the people finding out. Plus locking up war protestors en masse.

Putin can not have Ukraine doing well as part of the EU because it will sow discontent in Russia and erode his power base. He's pissed off at the West no doubt because they have been winning the war of influence in this part of the world and he's fighting back, but making out the US coup of Ukraine was the prime reason for this mess it just revisionary bullshit. The reason the people of Ukraine revolted against the Russian puppet Yanukovych in 2014 was because he backed out at the last minute from signing an EU trade agreement that had been 7 years in the making and he even admitted that it was because of Russia. That wasn't a coup because it took everyone by surprise, all except for Russia of course, the people of Ukraine just erupted spontaneously and 10,000 took to the streets in protest. Yes the West did their bit to fund the movement in the time following, which was months of protesting but it was just continuing the momentum of the Ukrainian people.

When Putin's puppet got kicked out, he needed a way back into Ukraine. So that's why he annexed Crimea and started sending paramilitaries and mercenaries into the pro-Russian Donbas region to start an 8 year war at pretty much the same time. Putin is an evil cunt through and through and thinks nothing of using war and intimidation to achieve his ends. Thinking he cares about the humanitarian needs of the Russian people in the Separatist regions is just laughable, they are a pawn to him, nothing more. Making out it a war on Nazis when he's used more Nazi's to fight in Donbas for 8 years is an absolute perfect example of his bullshit.
 
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No, not "maybe". It's a historical fact.



Something, and by that I mean common sense, tells me they'll be able to replace those parts with their own and survive.

You think that equipment is stuff you can just whip up something else and jam it in in there and you're good?

Russian economist Maxim Mironov seems to think the issues they're gonna face are a hell of a lot more problematic than you do...but we can all have our opinions.

I'm also not saying they're gonna be N Korea here. But to dismiss what they're up against going forward seems foolish.

But I don't have a crystal ball either.
 
it wouldn't have given any credibility to Putin had Ukraine been neutralized. your problem is you still believe in fairy tales.

Nah. Define "neutralized" though in this specific scenario.
 
Illegals - good to take beds
If you are calling war refugees as simple illegals you are not a human.
Without Russian invasion these had to sit in their hole and had made 0 problems.
Btw you are too much secure about your income, job and business. I ofc do know that everyone in dog is very rich etc alike.
 
all we need from the US is one plane flight with blinken and a few other stooges with pens to cosign a new Minsk deal

the entire manufacturing of consent that is happening is steering us in the opposite direction. i.e. if you appease Putin, he'll invade Europe, we have to beef up NATO, Russia must be punished, Ukraine should fight to the death! American state department and its corporate media arm have got average Americans so bricked up that they can't even imagine trading some territory in Ukraine that they never heard about until a few weeks ago to end this shit
I think it's quite a difference situation because Hitler didn't have nukes when the whole Appeasement thing was happening.
 
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