Should Jiri make us reconsider writing off minor orgs?

[BFoe]

It has always been about the fighter, never the orgs.

The UFC has had the lions share of premier talent since the PrideFC and Strikeforce mergers, nothing has changed in that regard.

but smaller orgs can certainly have fighters with exceptional ability who are waiting for the chance to prove it on the grand stage.

Jiri intentionally delayed going to the “big league” to refine his skills. Seems like it was a wise choice, though he may have kept some defensive liabilities that his opponents didn’t expose. We will see if he can continue to get away with his seemingly high risk “the best defense is more offense” approach.

Exactly this. There are great fighters in other orgs, and there are not-so-great fighters. Jiri was RIZIN LHW Champ, and he’s legit.
Mantel Kape was RIZIN Bantamweight Champ, and he’s gone 0-2 in the UFC against less-than-stellar competition.

 

[Dorkman]

Yes, if you were writing everyone off because they came from a non ufc product you're an idiot. Everyone starts and cuts their teeth in promotions like that. And other promotions can put on some highly competitive fights these guys to get really good.

 

[sadowolf]

Some of us never started writing them off.

It has always been about the fighter, never the orgs.

Plus this. Great fighters can rise up anywhere, even if their strength of schedule isn't as good as it may be in the UFC. That's why it's more important to look at what a fighter actually does and doesn't do in the cage and how they win rather than just focusing on who they've fought. If you do that, you can often spot a really good fighter even if they've fought less than stellar competition.

 

[Dirge]

?

Pretty much every fighter has to start somewhere...

 

[SalvadorAllende]

everyone comes from small/minor orgs before they get to the UFC or some other B league org like bellator.

But some of them might never do. And that is the point.

Chandler is another example. The guy spent his prime years in Bellator and still came to the UFC and smoked a contender like nobody did before. There was a pretty good chance that he renewed with Bellator and would be tagged as a B-level talent.

Douglas Lima, the FW Pitbull, Ray Cooper III, etc... top guys that might never go to the UFC but could very well be the best.

 

[arcadeperfect]

When a guy dominates other orgs he's special. Jiri finished every single opponent except for one person, it's evident that he's a unique talent.

 

[RockyLockridge]

honestly Smart mma fans know this.

you have to be object and you can even use hindsight if you want to. Strikeforce had better mw and HW divisions than the ufc, And WEC had a better LW division. Of course pride had better HW/LHW/MW from a varying degree from time to time as well.

 

[wwkirk]

Never buy the UFC narrative.

What's your interpretation of the UFC narrative? The UFC has only limited programs for developing homegrown talent. Most of their fighters come from other orgs, whether so-called second tier, or minor.

I've always thought the UFC prided itself in
1. Having the best champions, and
2. Having the best overall roster.

Since the UFC regularly scouts other orgs for talent, and sometimes tries to sign high profile fighters from other orgs, it seems like they've always believed there are good, even potentially great, fighters outside the UFC.

Do you disagree with 1 or 2, or do you have a different idea on what the UFC narrative is?

 

[ticho123]

I think it should be common knowledge by now that minor orgs aren't minor because their top fighters are bad, but because the depth of competition is lacking.

 

[Kono dio da!]

Yes. Most definitely.

 

[CinemaKingdom]

The ufc never had the best, stupid people just bought into propaganda from a liar like dana. Pretty pathetic actually. We have seen Pride, Strikeforce, WEC, and Bellator guys destroy ufc fighters over and over again throughout the years. You have to be completely brain dead at this point not to see the obvious. If I told people on here that the Rizin LHW champ would beat the guy who should have been the ufc LHW champ people would have laughed and said Rizin is for cans, blah blah blah. The same crap I have heard for a over a decade now.

 

[ferrisjso]

Yeah want to make it clear to everyone I mean the fighters who make a name at a minor org as champ. Yes "everyone starts at a minor org" obviously that's not what I meant.

 

[ferrisjso]

honestly Smart mma fans know this.

you have to be object and you can even use hindsight if you want to. Strikeforce had better mw and HW divisions than the ufc, And WEC had a better LW division. Of course pride had better HW/LHW/MW from a varying degree from time to time as well.

In my post I said minor orgs wasn't Pride/Strikeforce/Bellator etc. Those are major orgs were yeah some which promotion is better varies by division.

 

[Substance Abuse]

What kind of thread is this bullshit? Most organizations have good to great fighters. It's just the smaller ones have less of them and much less depth so the threats aren't as prevalent.

 

[ejlarson249]

While Bellator competition is taken seriously it's generally assumed feats in other promotions don't matter as these promotions are inferior to the UFC(larger weight classes). While Bellator feats are taken seriously(partly cause they signed a lot of proven UFC talent) like Pride/Strikeforce/Rings/Pancrase used to be even Bellator fighters have tended to perform worse in the UFC with Askren being the most recent example. Generally dominant fighters in a minor promotion will do worse in the UFC once they start fighting better competition. Branch is a good example from WSOF. Jan was a KSW champ but he was a UFC gatekeeper for years while some post Strikeforce most UFC stars are picked up by the UFC pretty early on even if they might have briefly fought for other orgs.

Before signing with the UFC Jiri seemed on paper like he was the embodiment of beating up on weaker competition he was the best fighter without a wikipedia page. While I saw videos of a few of his KO's and he looked impressive that can be deceiving against weak competition as we learned from Johnny Walker. His most prominent opponent was King Mo who he'd both beaten and lost to and King Mo wasn't that great. In the 2 Rizin GP's Jiri fought in his final opponent was Fabio Maldanao who couldn't cut it in the UFC and his opponent in the first doesn't have a wikipedia page. Five of Jiris Rizin opponents didn't have a wikipedia page.

But Jiri's looked just as good in the UFC had the same result against 2 of the best UFC fighters in his division Volkan and Reyes. Also one of Jiri's Rizin opponents has also won the Bellator belt beating both Bader and Davis. So the question remains are we underrating fighters outside of the major promotions? Should we be talking more about guys like Sordi in PFL who beats fighters we've either never heard or whom were UFC washouts. Some guys like the bigger ONE champs have proven beforehand they have the same success at the major promotions(N Sang couldn't cut it at KOTC) talking about the dominant fighters who haven't fought in the major promotions. Should the UFC sign more of these fighters?

Do you always turn to Sherdog to form your opinions? Maybe try to think for yourself? Why do you care what others think?

 

[ferrisjso]

Do you always turn to Sherdog to form your opinions? Maybe try to think for yourself? Why do you care what others think?

Wasn't asking advice I thought Jiri was good before he signed just wanted to start a conversation. My bad.

 

[Colemanstove]

everyone comes from small/minor orgs before they get to the UFC or some other B league org like bellator.

Not the real talent like cm punk

 

[MirRocksFedor]

While Bellator competition is taken seriously it's generally assumed feats in other promotions don't matter as these promotions are inferior to the UFC(larger weight classes). While Bellator feats are taken seriously(partly cause they signed a lot of proven UFC talent) like Pride/Strikeforce/Rings/Pancrase used to be even Bellator fighters have tended to perform worse in the UFC with Askren being the most recent example. Generally dominant fighters in a minor promotion will do worse in the UFC once they start fighting better competition. Branch is a good example from WSOF. Jan was a KSW champ but he was a UFC gatekeeper for years while some post Strikeforce most UFC stars are picked up by the UFC pretty early on even if they might have briefly fought for other orgs.

Before signing with the UFC Jiri seemed on paper like he was the embodiment of beating up on weaker competition he was the best fighter without a wikipedia page. While I saw videos of a few of his KO's and he looked impressive that can be deceiving against weak competition as we learned from Johnny Walker. His most prominent opponent was King Mo who he'd both beaten and lost to and King Mo wasn't that great. In the 2 Rizin GP's Jiri fought in his final opponent was Fabio Maldanao who couldn't cut it in the UFC and his opponent in the first doesn't have a wikipedia page. Five of Jiris Rizin opponents didn't have a wikipedia page.

But Jiri's looked just as good in the UFC had the same result against 2 of the best UFC fighters in his division Volkan and Reyes. Also one of Jiri's Rizin opponents has also won the Bellator belt beating both Bader and Davis. So the question remains are we underrating fighters outside of the major promotions? Should we be talking more about guys like Sordi in PFL who beats fighters we've either never heard or whom were UFC washouts. Some guys like the bigger ONE champs have proven beforehand they have the same success at the major promotions(N Sang couldn't cut it at KOTC) talking about the dominant fighters who haven't fought in the major promotions. Should the UFC sign more of these fighters?

King Mo Slept him.

Any version of JJones annihilates him

 

[BusterBarry]

While Bellator competition is taken seriously it's generally assumed feats in other promotions don't matter as these promotions are inferior to the UFC(larger weight classes). While Bellator feats are taken seriously(partly cause they signed a lot of proven UFC talent) like Pride/Strikeforce/Rings/Pancrase used to be even Bellator fighters have tended to perform worse in the UFC with Askren being the most recent example. Generally dominant fighters in a minor promotion will do worse in the UFC once they start fighting better competition. Branch is a good example from WSOF. Jan was a KSW champ but he was a UFC gatekeeper for years while some post Strikeforce most UFC stars are picked up by the UFC pretty early on even if they might have briefly fought for other orgs.

Before signing with the UFC Jiri seemed on paper like he was the embodiment of beating up on weaker competition he was the best fighter without a wikipedia page. While I saw videos of a few of his KO's and he looked impressive that can be deceiving against weak competition as we learned from Johnny Walker. His most prominent opponent was King Mo who he'd both beaten and lost to and King Mo wasn't that great. In the 2 Rizin GP's Jiri fought in his final opponent was Fabio Maldanao who couldn't cut it in the UFC and his opponent in the first doesn't have a wikipedia page. Five of Jiris Rizin opponents didn't have a wikipedia page.

But Jiri's looked just as good in the UFC had the same result against 2 of the best UFC fighters in his division Volkan and Reyes. Also one of Jiri's Rizin opponents has also won the Bellator belt beating both Bader and Davis. So the question remains are we underrating fighters outside of the major promotions? Should we be talking more about guys like Sordi in PFL who beats fighters we've either never heard or whom were UFC washouts. Some guys like the bigger ONE champs have proven beforehand they have the same success at the major promotions(N Sang couldn't cut it at KOTC) talking about the dominant fighters who haven't fought in the major promotions. Should the UFC sign more of these fighters?

Only for weak weight classes and shallow divisions like 205 and 265 yes

 

[SKITZADACTYL]

Not the real talent like cm punk

stop fishing for likes lmao, zero.