Television Space Shuttle Columbia disaster or Space Shuttle Challenger disaster - Which shocked you more?

Which shocked you more?

  • Total voters
    44
i don't think i even remember the Columbia, i'm sure i heard about it. The Challenger as a cultural moment was gigantic, everyone talked about, all with varying levels of seriousness and respect. People would joke about how they got cooked but mostly, it was a shock. It was especially sad how people on the ground cheered when it blew up, thinking it was some sort of overdrive system. People don't remember those types of things, and the last words recorded were, "oh, no" or some near equivalent. They probably didn't know what hit them really.
 
Blayt7hh said:
I don’t think I was even alive when the challenger happened
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i skipped school that day for some reason, so I saw the whole thing, don't remember if I saw it live or if I got wrapped up in the post-explosion news but it was a huge story with lots of chatter and analysis, it came out later that an o-ring failed to seal properly and some fuel or something flammable leaked.
 
I remember watching Challenger live at school 7th grade. So I gotta say challenger as I never forget that. I just now remember the other one
 
mozfonky said:
i skipped school that day for some reason, so I saw the whole thing, don't remember if I saw it live or if I got wrapped up in the post-explosion news but it was a huge story with lots of chatter and analysis, it came out later that an o-ring failed to seal properly and some fuel or something flammable leaked.
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It was an o-ring seal between the sections on one of the solid fuel boosters that allowed a flame to be directed at the huge fuel tank. NASA had been warned about the joints might not seal in cold weather. There was probably less that 25% of the area in the circumference of the joint where a flame could burn a hole in the fuel tank but the leak occurred in just the wrong place. It seems like the forward speed of nearly 1500 miles per hour should have provided enough air between the booster and the tank to prevent the flame from reaching the tank but it obviously didn't.
 
ralphc1 said:
It was an o-ring seal between the sections on one of the solid fuel boosters that allowed a flame to be directed at the huge fuel tank. NASA had been warned about the joints might not seal in cold weather. There was probably less that 25% of the area in the circumference of the joint where a flame could burn a hole in the fuel tank but the leak occurred in just the wrong place. It seems like the forward speed of nearly 1500 miles per hour should have provided enough air between the booster and the tank to prevent the flame from reaching the tank but it obviously didn't.
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ya, i didn't remember all the technicalities so I didn't want to sound like a bonehead.

The Netflix docu was fantastic, people were warned about the deficiencies and the interesting thing is, that just like in your and my lives when you warn your bosses, coworkers, friends or family about something coming up as clear as day to you, they often just don't see it, enter into a state of denial and then act all surprised when the predicted tragedy happens and like they couldn't have done anything to prevent it, no motherfucker, you knew, or you were warned you just wanted to put your head in the sand and pooh pooh what you were told. Some of the Challenger employees were said to be crying because they couldn't penetrate into the upper management to stop it before it happened. See what we get?
 
Challenger watched it live. And it was probably the first news story I followed as a wee tyke.
 
The Challenger disaster was broadcast in elementary schools all around the country, not to mention everywhere else. It was supposed to be a showcase of the American spirit and ingenuity, and they were so insane about it, that they threw a poor innocent teacher on that fucker, like she was a fucking tourist, and it ended up being a cautionary tale of American hubris instead. I can't think of another cultural event that could've gone any more wrong, than that one. It would be like an F-16 crashing into the stands at the Super Bowl in the middle of the national anthem. There's probably still people out there going to therapy over it.

Columbia was bad, but it was more of "workplace hazard" kind of deal. Sucks, but there are risks to venturing out into space, and it least they didn't have any civilians on board, nor was it a publicity stunt.
 
mozfonky said:
i don't think i even remember the Columbia, i'm sure i heard about it. The Challenger as a cultural moment was gigantic, everyone talked about, all with varying levels of seriousness and respect. People would joke about how they got cooked but mostly, it was a shock. It was especially sad how people on the ground cheered when it blew up, thinking it was some sort of overdrive system. People don't remember those types of things, and the last words recorded were, "oh, no" or some near equivalent. They probably didn't know what hit them really.
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Not necessarily. I believe one of the current theories is that the module they were in, got blown away from craft when it exploded, and they might've actually been alive for the plummet to wherever the fuck they crashed down at, or at least until they lost consciousness from the g forces of falling at ten million miles an hour.
 
No offense, but this is a tremendously stupid question. The Challenger exploded on live TV that millions upon millions of people were watching, after months of build up. Including a competition among teachers to be the first civilian in space. Many of our teachers applied. Also worth reminding younger people that TV and news back then was nothing more than a few local channels and the local paper. Everyone was exposed to the exact same news, over and over and over.
 
MXZT said:
Some were probably not old enough to see the Space Shuttle Challenger exploding. But I thought I'd ask this question anyway.

I honestly have more vivid memories with the Space Shuttle Challenger exploding, rather than the other one.

I totally forgot the Space Shuttle Columbia explosion happened. Even though it's more recent. Not sure why, maybe I was just a little kid when the Challenger exploded. So it gave me an indelible unforgettable memory for a young mind.

Both are very tragic and shocking indeed.



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Challenger I would say as it was at *relatively* low altitude (70 or 80,000ft) and plenty of video footage of the tanks exploding and the SRBs careening off on their own. I remember watching it well in 1986.
-- Technically speaking the Challenger shuttle did NOT explode (in fact neither shuttle exploded at all), it broke up due to aerodynamic forces. The main H2 Hydrogen tank ruptured after the hot gases escaped near the base and all the remaining H2 ignited in the presence of Liquid O2 and that was the massive explosion on video. Fuel tank explosion, which obviously was Loss of Vehicle and end of mission. The Shuttle instantly tumbled and broke up at it was going so fast and it couldnt hold together (obviously was prob v damaged to say the least from the H2 tank going bang...) Crew capsule stayed intact all the way to the surface of the Atlantic where it impacted at 207mph and killed everyone from the impact. Most or all of the crew are believed to have been alive and even conscious on the 4minute trip down to the sea surface. In fact 2 of the emergency airpacks had been activated MANUALLY by hand (Judy Resnik did that...) and the amount of O2 consumed when the found the Crew capsule was consistent with crew members oxygen use for the 4mins (approx) it took to fall to ocean surface. So minimum 2 crew members were alive and possibly conscious.

Columbia was less of a shock i'd imagine to most people as by 2003 the Shuttle launches were regarded as routine and somewhat "dull" to the general public (not to me). Plus Columbia broke up (again it did not explode, it broke up as it lost hydraulics and attitude-control and tumbled at high spin rates) at extreme altitude of 200,000ft so video of the Loss of Vehicle was far less dramatic, visually.
 
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Doughie99 said:
Challenger I would say as it was at *relatively* low altitude (70 or 80,000ft) and plenty of video footage of the tanks exploding and the SRBs careening off on their own. I remember watching it well in 1986.
-- Technically speaking the Challenger shuttle did NOT explode (in fact neither shuttle exploded at all), it broke up due to aerodynamic forces. The main H2 Hydrogen tank ruptured after the hot gases escaped near the base and all the remaining H2 ignited in the presence of Liquid O2 and that was the massive explosion on video. Fuel tank explosion, which obviously was Loss of Vehicle and end of mission. The Shuttle instantly tumbled and broke up. Crew capsule stayed intact all the way to the surface of the Atlantic where it impacted at 207mph and killed everyone from the impact. Most or all of the crew are believed to have been alive and even conscious on the 4minute trip down to the sea surface. In fact 2 of the emergency airpacks had been activated MANUALLY by hand (Judy Resnik did that...) and the amount of O2 consumed when the found the Creew capsule was consistent with crew members oxygen use for the 4mins (approx) it took to fall to ocean surface. So minimum 2 crew members were alive and possibly conscious.

Columbia was less of a shock i'd imagine to most people as by 2003 the Shuttle launches were regarded as routine and somewhat "dull" to the general public (not to me). Plus Columbia broke up (again it did not explode, it broke up as it lost hydraulics and attitude-control and tumbled at high spin rates) at extreme altitude of 200,000ft so video of the Loss of Vehicle was far less dramatic, visually.
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while i appreciate this info, it also makes the Challenger disaster far more harrowing
 
ralphc1 said:
Challenger was a shock because it was the first time Americans were killed in a space flight. 3 astronauts were killed in a training fire on the ground in Apollo 1. All of America's space missions had been successful other than Apollo 13 which still brought the crew back alive. The Space shuttles had been launched successfully for several years and 24 previous flights. The Challenger was also on live video.

The Columbia problem was caused on the launch but didn't happen until the re-entry where there aren't any cameras. It was pretty much know that it must have broken up on re-entry but there was little evidence other than some lights in the sky until debris was found. Nothing near as graphic as Challenger.
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The confirmation for mission control came when the pilot of one of the T38 chase planes which basically accompanied the Shuttle down to the runway, reported on the comm loops that he visually confirmed the Shuttle had broken up. THats the conversation at t=2m59secs of the first youtube video, the BBC one. The woman at 2m59s is a NASA astronaut who was working in mission control that day and she has just been told a T38 pilot reported vehicle had broken up.....that's her saying "Oh my God" on the BBC vid. Can't remember her name.
That's when Leroy Cain then told the Ground Control to 'lock the doors' -- the entire mission control goes straight into a standard NASA procedure for when a vehicle is lost.
 
HereticBD said:
Not necessarily. I believe one of the current theories is that the module they were in, got blown away from craft when it exploded, and they might've actually been alive for the plummet to wherever the fuck they crashed down at, or at least until they lost consciousness from the g forces of falling at ten million miles an hour.
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not a theory, it was proven when they examined the crew-module wreckage and found at least TWO of the emergency air-packs had been activated, by hand, and the used Oxygen was consistent with the amouint of time it took to impact the ocean surface. They believe Judy Resnik activated her own pack and the pack of the guy in front of her which was either the pilot or the commander.

So...yes....min.2 alive. Maybe conscious. Terminal verlocity at sea-level was 207mph by recollection. Impact at that speed is non-survivable and that's what killed everyone. Took them WEEKS to find the crew cabin remains and the astronauts remains were still in there, strapped to the remains of their seats. On the way down the crew were at 0g (in freefall). The deceleration on impact would have been massive, probably hundreds of Gs. = Instant death.
 
Christa McAuliffe was a civilian and a publicity darling for the Reagan administration, I don't think there could have been a worse time for something to go wrong. Millions and millions of people tuned in to watch it unfold. The Columbia pales in comparison to the Challenger.
 
Too young to truly know what the Challenger tragedy was like, but I've heard stories from teachers growing up. Never even really heard of the Columbia disaster; all I have a fuzzy memory of my US history teacher briefly talking about some space shuttle blowing up that week then going right into lecturing about the Challenger. Seemed like nobody gave a shit about the Columbia Space Shuttle, honestly.

What I did find rather surprising is that these incidents, while nearly 2 decades apart, could both be partially attributed to higher ups telling young concerned engineers "Lol stfu noob you ain't know shit ting will hold up fam #Trust send that mfer up to space 🚀🌌 🧠"
 
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PaddyO'malley said:
Too young to truly know what the Challenger tragedy was like, but I've heard stories from teachers growing up. Never even really heard of the Columbia disaster; all I have a fuzzy memory of my US history teacher briefly talking about some space shuttle blowing up that week then going right into lecturing about the Challenger. Seemed like nobody gave a shit about the Columbia Space Shuttle, honestly.

What I did find rather surprising is that these incidents, while nearly 2 decades apart, could both be partially attributed to higher ups telling young concerned engineers "Lol stfu noob you ain't know shit ting will hold up fam #Trust send that mfer up to space 🚀🌌 🧠"
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The single person who, in the subsequent investigation of the entire Columbia tragedy, received the most blame was a senior NASA or JPL manager named Linda Ham. (this is all by memory).
Linda Ham was a high-up NASA official and there were numerous requests made to senior NASA people to get a U.S. government high-resolution spy-satellite to take detailed photos of Columbia in orbit as the engineers had SEEN the foam block hit the left wing on ascent and wanted photos to see IF there was any damage to the wing/. What, if anything, could have been done had they discovered the 6 to 10inch hole in the carbon-carbon of the left wing..... nobody is too sure but Atlantis could perhaps have been launched on a rescue mission.

Linda Ham was the principle person who refused to grant the requests for in-orbit hi-res photos of Columbia's left wing and she got basically HOOFED after the investigation. She was moved to a completely different desk job as far as I can remember. She basically totally ignored in-orbit shuttle photo requests and said "it's foam, it cannot harm the carbon-carbon leading edge of the wing, we've had foam strikes before, this is nothing new" or words to that effect. If she had said "yes ok" to the satellite-photo requests they could have known the shuttle was mortally damaged and re-entry impossible and death assured for all the crew if they attempted re-entry. Shuttle Atlantis was being prepped for the next mission and could, potentially, have been rush-prepared and launched to rescue the 7 astronauts.

There's a 400page PDF document issued by NASA called "Columbia Crew Survival Investigation Report".
I downloaded it and read it a few years ago. Spaceflight & astronomy etc has been a long-time interest of mine for decades.
 
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