Social Tennessee lawmakers pass bill to allow teachers to be armed

[jk7707]

You can't really fight back against someone who is armed with a firearm using only a #2 pencil. It's helpful to be able to arm yourself.



So let the 30% who might support this idea protect the 70% who do.



Schools had worse security before Columbine and shootings rarely if ever happened. Guns were prevalent back then too. If as you say having an SRO and locking buildings isn't working then that is why we need to progress forward with other solutions. Gun Free Zone signs definitely don't work.

-Maybe, just maybe, focus on why these incidents are happening, and why these deranged people are able to acquire their weapon of choice so easily?

In the meantime hire more/better trained SROs if you want more security. Not teachers.

- Ignoring the vast majority of educators (and parents) who disagree with this, sounds like a reasonable solution to you?

Especially considering the fact that this law doesn't allow either parents or other teachers the ability to ask who on the staff is armed.

-You're right. 30+ years ago shootings were less common. I'm sure there are many factors that have contributed to the increase. But there's zero proof that arming teachers will do anything to help the problem.

 

[terrapin]

Why would a teacher be waiting by the door to shoot the gunman if the gunman randomly entered the room? Lol teachers need to teach. They arent going to be exclusively posted up by a door. And yes, I think there is significant argument to be made that a gunfight in an enclosed space full of terrified children is an altogether bad idea.

I think the kids are better off with better design of the school, and someone who can think quickly to hide them and evacuate them, and I dont find it convincing that adding a firearm skirmish makes the situation better.

I wish I could find it but there was a video where a guy who had some shooting experience did a drill about this from inside a classroom with like ballistic dummies where the kids would be. He kept either repeatedly killing kids, or drawing fire towards them while getting shot himself. And it didnt even have the chaos of the kids screaming, crying, and running around.

If you mean the gunman is going to get the element of surprise somewhere. Yes, obviously thats very common, everyone knows that.... but many of these shootings have gone on for quite a bit of time and teachers did have time to prepare.


My daughter's school has security locks everywhere and you have to be buzzed in. By the time a gunman came through the front door. There would have been an announcement made in every single teacher would know it was coming.

Also, at my daughter's school they keep all the classrooms locked so someone cant just bust in without a warning. I'd be very surprised if that wasn't the case in most classrooms nowadays, but maybe it isn't....

 

[terrapin]

What? I dont think I advocated specifically for either running or hiding. If you're talking about adding a gun, it's hard to imagine a worse course of action in the given scenario. It all bit guaranteed bullets flying in fits of rage and fear.

There are many different scenarios possible and there are plenty of them one can imagine or extract from things that really did already happen where the teacher having a gun would be better.

The bottom line for me is everything anybody says about it is absurd because the thing we're trying to protect kids from is absurd.

Personally, I would advocate for tons better mental health care treatment. But then again I am an advocate of universal healthcare so I think that should be a given and people should be able to get treatment if they need it.

Alongside of that, I'm an advocate for common sense gun laws. I don't really know exactly what those should be, but at the very least a person who owns a gun should be responsible for securing that gun in such a way that it cannot be taken without great effort, like maybe safes. I have three guns. Every one of them are locked up with a fingerprint safe so that I can get to it quickly but no one else can. I don't think it's unreasonable at the very least to ask that of every gun owner.

And I also believe we should turn schools into fortresses only idon't think they have to look like fortresses or make kids feel uncomfortable. I think every door should be lockable and be blast proof and I think there should be some kind of monitoring system in the school and I think cops and law enforcement should have access to all of that information if and when an emergency happens.

After all of that is done, I have no problem with certain teachers having a gun as long as they're trained well for that purpose and want to do it. But I do worry about that teacher having a gun if they're going to break up regular fist fights and things because it introduces a deadly weapon into the system.

 

[terrapin]

Yep, we disagree. I have fought countless people with my gun open carry and never had an issue. Maybe along with gun retention, they go through some defensive tactics training as well. My point has been that it needs to be more than 40 hours. More like 40 days

I believe you, but I also think you're a cop who's job it is to prepare for that kind of thing. Unless there was some kind of serious training that could match up and be equal to the on-the-job experience you get as a cop, I wouldn't think every teacher would be as capable....

I'm not even definitely against teachers having guns. I just see the problems people worry about alongside of the benefits you're talking about.

If there's a gunman in my daughter's school shooting kids and he comes to a door that my daughter's class is behind, I definitely want that teacher in there to have a freaking gun man..

 

[Ruprecht]

My favorite thing about Sherdog is even if you try to reduce something to the most easily understood example, there are people here dumb enough to somehow still not get the point. Here, let me spell it out for you.

No guns? No gun violence.

Some guns? Some gun violence.

Lots of guns? Lots of gun violence.

Compare The US, Canada, UK, and Australia. Four countries with similar cultures (apart from the gun glorification in the US), economies, and demographics, but far different gun ownership rates.

Firearms per Capita

US - 120.5
CA - 34.7
AU - 14.5
UK - 7

Gun Death Rates

US - 4.05 / 100,000
CA - 0.73 / 100,000
AU - 0.08 / 100,000
UK - 0.01 / 100,000

Wow what could the problem be? Impossible to say! Better add more guns to be on the safe side!



I swear this country has the dumbest fucking people on the planet.

I assume that "per capita" figure for guns is per 100 people? Not that I could rule out Americans having 120 guns each, but I know we don't have 14-15.

 

[HunterAcosta]

What if some fat, out of shape male teacher is getting his ass kicked in a regular fight by a teen and decides to Zimmerman the kid? You know its going to happen at some point.

 

[spamking]

Running away and hiding give you a MUCH better chance of surviving a mass shooter than engaging. Especially if you're surrounded by children.

Which is what I said should happen first. I've been pretty clear that the armed response from a teacher should be the last line of defense when cornered in a classroom or other location where there is nowhere else to run or hide.

 

[spamking]

If you would get into a gunfight with kids around you, handgun vs AR, in an enclosed space, then I'd be very thankful youre not that teacher with a gun.

Would you prefer they just lay down and die?

 

[spamking]

-Maybe, just maybe, focus on why these incidents are happening, and why these deranged people are able to acquire their weapon of choice so easily?

They happen because most of the locations attacked have little to no resistance. These people know they'll get to shoot up a place without worry.

There have been people who have bought legally with no history of violence and then decided to go commit an evil act.

In the meantime hire more/better trained SROs if you want more security. Not teachers.

This is fine with me . . . as long as physical security upgrades are included. I'm perfectly fine with not arming teachers if others on-site are armed and the location is sufficiently protected.

- Ignoring the vast majority of educators (and parents) who disagree with this, sounds like a reasonable solution to you?

Especially considering the fact that this law doesn't allow either parents or other teachers the ability to ask who on the staff is armed.

I think it's very reasonable to offer the opportunity to properly trained educators to be armed for a last line of defense if their school is breached.

-You're right. 30+ years ago shootings were less common. I'm sure there are many factors that have contributed to the increase. But there's zero proof that arming teachers will do anything to help the problem.

What factors do you think are involved?

Can't have proof of something if it's never been implemented.

 

[Copper Burner]

What if some fat, out of shape male teacher is getting his ass kicked in a regular fight by a teen and decides to Zimmerman the kid? You know its going to happen at some point.

Noone would care that much.

 

[Copper Burner]

If I were a teacher, I would not want to be in some of these schools for 8 hours a day without a firearm.

 

[Sinister]

There are many different scenarios possible and there are plenty of them one can imagine or extract from things that really did already happen where the teacher having a gun would be better.

The bottom line for me is everything anybody says about it is absurd because the thing we're trying to protect kids from is absurd.

Personally, I would advocate for tons better mental health care treatment. But then again I am an advocate of universal healthcare so I think that should be a given and people should be able to get treatment if they need it.

Alongside of that, I'm an advocate for common sense gun laws. I don't really know exactly what those should be, but at the very least a person who owns a gun should be responsible for securing that gun in such a way that it cannot be taken without great effort, like maybe safes. I have three guns. Every one of them are locked up with a fingerprint safe so that I can get to it quickly but no one else can. I don't think it's unreasonable at the very least to ask that of every gun owner.

And I also believe we should turn schools into fortresses only idon't think they have to look like fortresses or make kids feel uncomfortable. I think every door should be lockable and be blast proof and I think there should be some kind of monitoring system in the school and I think cops and law enforcement should have access to all of that information if and when an emergency happens.

After all of that is done, I have no problem with certain teachers having a gun as long as they're trained well for that purpose and want to do it. But I do worry about that teacher having a gun if they're going to break up regular fist fights and things because it introduces a deadly weapon into the system.

I just think there's almost no limit to the State power people will give under the guise of "we must protect the kids"...which has been a mantra of every single authoritarian regime throughout History. You are advocating for common sense gun laws, which is good (bye the way many Americans HATE the idea of added fun regulations other armed Countries use because of the politicization of the issue), and if we had those laws, turning schools into these impenetrable fortresses wouldn't even be necessary to begin with.

 

[Sinister]

Would you prefer they just lay down and die?

I would prefer they hide or escape. I'd also prefer the teachers be skilled at talking because every second they can delay a shooter this way buys law enforcement time to get the drop on them before anyone needs to shoot. Getting into a face-to-face gunfight with kids behind you is never a sensible option. It's at best argued as a "not AS bad as" bad idea.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I just think there's almost no limit to the State power people will give under the guise of "we must protect the kids"...which has been a mantra of every single authoritarian regime throughout History. You are advocating for common sense gun laws, which is good (bye the way many Americans HATE the idea of added fun regulations other armed Countries use because of the politicization of the issue), and if we had those laws, turning schools into these impenetrable fortresses wouldn't even be necessary to begin with.

I seriously do not understand what is authoritarian about armed adults protecting children. I don't see that as the state expanding power considering you may also carry one.


Also yea I'd likely rather turn every school into a fortress than have the rest of the world's gun laws. People can't carry and own them in other countries.....that seems authoritarian to me.

 

[spamking]

If I were a teacher, I would not want to be in some of these schools for 8 hours a day without a firearm.

I don't doubt some would seem to warrant it. My youngest is currently finishing up an internship within the OKC Public School district. Her experience has been . . . interesting.

 

[spamking]

I would prefer they hide or escape.

I think most of us would. But to cast a blind eye to the cases where this isn't possible is short-sighted. Those are the times when an armed teacher meeting the attacker at the door of their classroom might be needed.

I'd also prefer the teachers be skilled at talking because every second they can delay a shooter this way buys law enforcement time to get the drop on them before anyone needs to shoot.

Didn't you say something previously about shooters being committed to suicide by cops or not being discouraged by armed teachers? How do you think trying to talk someone like that down might go most of the time?

Getting into a face-to-face gunfight with kids behind you is never a sensible option. It's at best argued as a "not AS bad as" bad idea.

It's never the preferred option. I've never indicated that it should be. I've said several times it should only be the option of last resort and last line of defense when absolutely needed.

 

[spamking]

if we had those laws, turning schools into these impenetrable fortresses wouldn't even be necessary to begin with.

 

[spamking]

People can't carry and own them in other countries.....that seems authoritarian to me.

That's the definition of authoritarian.

 

[HunterAcosta]

Noone would care that much.

They’d care if it was certain race .

 

[Sinister]

I seriously do not understand what is authoritarian about armed adults protecting children. I don't see that as the state expanding power considering you may also carry one.


Also yea I'd likely rather turn every school into a fortress than have the rest of the world's gun laws. People can't carry and own them in other countries.....that seems authoritarian to me.

Its literal expansion of the idea of a police State. I expressed in here earlier (and others corroborated) that schools have been uppity about releasing children to their parents' custody at a time they deem unfit. Now that agent of the State can be armed. The fact that I could to doesnt mean its NOT an expansion of State power. It just is one. If you live in a place where you may have to get into a gunfight with a State agent to get your kid, that's a problem.

And no, there are Countries where people CAN carry who have better laws than we do. You just wont like those either. Because there isn't any set of laws you are likely to be in favor of that will restrict gun use or ownership if it interferes with the idea that you may have to shoot someone as fast as possible. That has become a fundamental ideology to gun culture here and literally any idea that hinders that basic notion is looked at as unacceptable.