Social The destruction of critical thinking in higher education

[Source]

You're still doing it. I don't even know what youre referring to. But rarely is diismissing everything someone says the best practice, or the best example of critical thinking.

I think Chomsky is a complete loon, and biased as all fuck. That still doesn't mean I'm going to completely dismiss everything he says.

You don’t understand my reference and instead of researching it first you rush to respond and accuse me of something I’ve never said. You’re just proving my point for me.

 

[tastaylvr]

You're still doing it. I don't even know what youre referring to. But rarely is diismissing everything someone says the best practice, or the best example of critical thinking.

I think Chomsky is a complete loon, and biased as all fuck. That still doesn't mean I'm going to completely dismiss everything he says.

You might need to finish high school English before you criticise anyone’s critical thinking ability.

 

[Bob Gray]

You don’t understand my reference and instead of researching it first you rush to respond and accuse me of something I’ve never said. You’re just proving my point for me.

Are you talking about the 2020 election fraud accusations? What, specifically, did Shapiro say? So far as I know, hes never argued for it.

 

[slavomir]

It is becoming exceedingly rare that I’ve seen a debate or argument coming from an institute of higher education on a controversial topic that isn’t driven by emotion rather than intelligence.

The video below is Ben Shapiro arguing with college students at Oxford over the latest Israel-Palestine conflict. Although, it’s just one example, it feels wide spread in debates I’ve seen across college campuses where emotional arguments is the driving force, where arguments are outcome focused rather than principled.

I’m not even a Ben Shapiro fan but he argued these college idiots into oblivion. Since when did debates at education institutes become this shitty.

You were never young?
Did you forget how it was?
Full of hormones, feelings, passion, energy....
Ideas about world change whole life. During teen age tremendously. After 20 little slower, but still a lot idealistic.
I was skate, hardcore, punk, vegan, antifa, animal liberation, earth first from 14 to 19. ( Lot of this ment completely different things in my country back then. My country had very strong nazi/soccer hooligans scene, police were not prosecuting throngs of bald headed youngsters who were ready to kick your ass because you had longer hair or punk/metal t-shirt. My nose was broken several times, I was kicked by Marthens countless times, even my coccyx/tail bone was broken. I guess I idealisticaly stood by freedom and against injustice)

 

[Squarechoke]

The video isn't available to me but if I'm guessing the content correctly I'm to be impressed with a person with tons of experience of media and political debate outarguing 17 year olds that are put on camera with a celebrity? Or surprised that they don't fare well? I wouldn't be surprised if he could debate a factually false argument and still outargue such people. Especially given that such videos can always pick which they choose to show.

Furthermore, if these students manage to come off dumber than many of the interview videos of adults at MAGA rallies that I've seen, I'd be pretty surprised.

 

[Texan6533]

Absolutely…..coming from someone who has both been a student and a teacher, critical thinking skills aren’t necessarily focused on in public education, more making sure quotas are hit, data can be “proven” , and students can pass final exams.

If you want critical thinking skills to be a large part of the curriculum, you really have to go out of your way as a teacher to make sure you implement it in your lesson plans.

 

[Belaya Smert]

Absolutely…..coming from someone who has both been a student and a teacher, critical thinking skills aren’t necessarily focused on in public education, more making sure quotas are hit, data can be “proven” , and students can pass final exams.

If you want critical thinking skills to be a large part of the curriculum, you really have to go out of your way as a teacher to make sure you implement it in your lesson plans.

Any thoughts on no child left behind and standardized test results mandating public school funding?

 

[fica]

Problem with America is they brand and franchise everything so higher education is next "critical thinking" what is that but made up brand of thinking no different from.anuly.other thinking process students are not stupid and it is basicly patronizing and beliteli.g people when you tell him or her you stupid because you do not critical think so there is push back on this now and what really is critical thinking

 

[Texan6533]

Any thoughts on no child left behind and standardized test results mandating public school funding?

From my experience, no child left behind irreparably damaged grading / passing policies, leading to practices we are going to now such as standards based grading in Texas. Part of the reason I left the field this year.

And standardized tests don’t necessarily test intelligence in my opinion, more whether a student can take tests well. Never been a fan to be honest.

I also feel there should be more of a path to getting a GED and working sooner than later for kids that aren’t planning on going to a four year college after high school and just want to start their careers.

 

[Blayt7hh]

I don’t agree with many of his positions but he knows how to debate and make a point.

That’s actually the problem with this confrontational style of debating. If this really determined who had the best position then Eminem and Joe Rogan should be president.

If people really wanted to get to the truth though they should sit down and work through it with someone who doesn’t share their view and not just try to win. Easier said than done though. If I don’t focus on hearing the other side of the debate I just start looking to exploit angles to sound right

 

[Loiosh]

Are you talking about the 2020 election fraud accusations? What, specifically, did Shapiro say? So far as I know, hes never argued for it.

Shapiro's been pretty inconsistent about Trump, but he's largely stuck to the law regarding the election as far as I know.

He's emphasized Trump's right to challenge but disputed the charges of fraud without evidence. I loathe Shapiro but think he played it straight about the 2020 elections, unlike most conservative outlets and pundits, who indulged all flavors of insanity.

Shapiro was brutally honest about Trump until Trump won the nomination, at which point Shapiro towed the line.

 

[Bob Gray]

Shapiro's been pretty inconsistent about Trump, but he's largely stuck to the law regarding the election as far as I know.

He's emphasized Trump's right to challenge but disputed the charges of fraud without evidence. I loathe Shapiro but think he played it straight about the 2020 elections, unlike most conservative outlets and pundits, who indulged all flavors of insanity.

Shapiro was brutally honest about Trump until Trump won the nomination, at which point Shapiro towed the line.

I dunno. Shapiro has been pretty critical of Trump and hes flat out said he doesnt want people like him as the nomination, and thinks if either party would put up a sane candidate, theyd win easily. Im pretty sure @Source is just pulling him supporting 2020 election fraud out of his ass.

 

[Loiosh]

I dunno. Shapiro has been pretty critical of Trump and hes flat out said he doesnt want people like him as the nomination, and thinks if either party would put up a sane candidate, theyd win easily. Im pretty sure @Source is just pulling him supporting 2020 election fraud out of his ass.

Shapiro talked about Trump and the election results daily, walking the regular conservative talking points, and I don't think he ever supported anything crazy.

 

[Source]

I dunno. Shapiro has been pretty critical of Trump and hes flat out said he doesnt want people like him as the nomination, and thinks if either party would put up a sane candidate, theyd win easily. Im pretty sure @Source is just pulling him supporting 2020 election fraud out of his ass.

He mentioned over and over the questions surrounding the election. You see that as just asking questions but the point was to build an underlying support for the ideas that the election could be fraudulent. You’re not helping your case. I stand by my statements he’s not a critical thinker and neither are you. You keep making my case for me.

 

[Jack V Savage]

That’s actually the problem with this confrontational style of debating. If this really determined who had the best position then Eminem and Joe Rogan should be president.

If people really wanted to get to the truth though they should sit down and work through it with someone who doesn’t share their view and not just try to win. Easier said than done though. If I don’t focus on hearing the other side of the debate I just start looking to exploit angles to sound right

Live, in-person debating is basically the opposite of critical thinking, and it's very telling that people conflate them.

 

[aerius]

I also feel there should be more of a path to getting a GED and working sooner than later for kids that aren’t planning on going to a four year college after high school and just want to start their careers.

When I was in high school around 30 years ago we had a 3 track system for our education. We had Basic level courses for people going into the trades or vocational school, General level courses for those going to community college, and Advanced level for the ones going to university. IIRC, with basic course you could be done with all your secondary education requirements and ready to work in the trades by the time you're 16 or 17, general level students graduate when they're 18, and advanced level would be done by 18 or 19 depending on how heavily we stacked our course loads.

Basic level got phased out some time back and redid things again a few years ago so that everyone graduates at 18. It's a bit of a clown show and no one's happy about it.

 

[Bob Gray]

He mentioned over and over the questions surrounding the election. You see that as just asking questions but the point was to build an underlying support for the ideas that the election could be fraudulent. You’re not helping your case. I stand by my statements he’s not a critical thinker and neither are you. You keep making my case for me.

Uh-huh. First he "supported it" and "fell for it".
Now he just "mentioned the questions". Awesome backtrack, Captain Critical.

 

[Source]

Uh-huh. First he "supported it" and "fell for it".
Now he just "mentioned the questions". Awesome backtrack, Captain Critical.

Where did i say he fell for it? So here is another misappropriation of my words by you. Outside of mindless drones no one fell for the stolen election. Anyone with half a brain knows it wasn't stolen. I claimed he did promote it. There was never any questions surrounding the legitimacy of the 2020 election. So even just asking questions is promoting the lie that it could have been fraudulent. You keep making my point and you don’t even realize it. I’m sorry I insulted your dearest Ben.

 

[Bob Gray]

Where did i say he fell for it? So here is another misappropriation of my words by you. Outside of mindless drones no one fell for the stolen election. Anyone with half a brain knows it wasn't stolen. I claimed he did promote it. There was never any questions surrounding the legitimacy of the 2020 election. So even just asking questions is promoting the lie that it could have been fraudulent. You keep making my point and you don’t even realize it. I’m sorry I insulted your dearest Ben.

Uh-huh. You say "asking the questions" like he actually wondered if it happened. Still, you havent even provided a single source for anything youre claiming. Tell you what. I'll go out on a limb and you can make me eat crow with very minimal effort if anything you're saying is arguably true.

Ben Shapiro has never promoted 2020 election fraud or argued for it's legitimacy.

The single caveat is that "promoted" is not to be synonymous with "talked about". Him bringing up the topic is not promoting it, especially if he doesnt argue for its legitimacy. My guess is you'll just deflect into some kind of "Im not gonna do your homework for you" response.

 

[no fat chicks]

Shapiro promoted the big lie. He is not a critical thinker. As a matter of fact clearly neither are you.

Be warned this guy didn't have a problem with season 8 of game of thrones.