The Striking of Conor McGregor (with GIF's) -- RETRO BUMP

[Bukowski82]

Solid post.

 

[flanellograf]

I think I should clarify I'm not talk about keeping your hands up at all times as a defence. But more in response to what I immediately see in the gifs. When Conner strikes most of the time he has his chin in the air and hands down (Maybe he just felt comfortable with Brimage). It just takes a fighter to counter his counter and he gets caught clean. Keeping his hands up while countering as Machida did against Bader would make it harder for the opponent to land when they're both throwing.

That doesn't really refute the cookie cutter dig, which was what you originally responded to. And "just takes"... well, that really doesn't say much. It takes a pretty advanced striker to counter a counter, especially from another advanced striker, and mma isn't really chock full of them yet. Connor also seems to be good enough to adapt to different styles. He did say he expected Brimage to "overthrow" his shots. Looking at his other fights he does seem pretty well versed in slipping punches and positioning himself out of harms way.

 

[a guy]

Yes, you can be KO'd while your hands are up and yes footwork and angles head movement etc are very important. But keeping your hands down while throwing counter shots increases the chance of getting caught and hurt.
As an example see Machida's counter shot against Jones... kept his hand by his waist and got hit clean and dropped by Jones. Made the adjustment of keeping his hand up against Bader, which lead to him blocking Bader's shot. Had he not made that adjustment Bader would have landed and possibly KO'd Machida.

Also keeping your hands up is the first thing boxers (as myself), kickboxers, etc are taught.

Once again, not necessarily. If you look closely at Machida's counter vs Jones, he attempts it while Jones is already in the middle of attacking him and while Machida has no angle. You say that angles are important, yet your example is a fighter getting caught when he has no angle and tries to counter an opponent who is already attacking without using head movement. In a case like that, yes, keeping your hands up is important because you have literally nothing else to rely on. It was a huge mistake by Machida. Also, if you really pay attention to Jones dropping Machida, you'll notice that Jones forces Machida's counter to miss by pushing his right hand into Machida's left bicep and forcing it outside Jones' head. In the Bader fight it's the same idea. Bader charges and Machida strikes at the same time, this time while blocking and it saves him but he still gets hit. What I'm trying to establish is that having your hands down only gets really risky when you have nothing else going for you.

Connor doesn't counterpunch in the same way that got Machida dropped in that scenario. He either moves to an angle (such as his outside angle in the finish) or hops back to avoid a punch then catches the opponent coming forward (such as his elbow counter). In other words, he hits at those times when the opponent either can't hit him, or at the very least can't hit him with anything harder than what he's throwing. If he was trying to counter charging opponents by throwing at the same time (instead of in between their strikes) then yes, he would most definitely need to keep his hands up.

Conners style has some advantages as you've said, but keeping your hands down while countering your opponents punches is very risky. If anything the Gifs show me how open he is especially while throwing those uppercuts.
We'll see if he fights the same way against a better striker than Brimage.

If you look at the gifs and think he's open when throwing the uppercuts then you really need to take a closer look. In the first gif where he throws uppercuts, he lands the first one (with his left from southpaw) while Brimage ducks into it. Then, he follows it up with a right hook that knocks Brimage over to Connor's left. (because Brimage tries to kick and has no balance after eating the hook). With Brimage once again crouched down and this time off to the left, Connor's left uppercut that he throws is the perfect weapon to use and put him in less than no danger.

In the finish, he has Brimage completely wobbled and is knocking him around. Brimage couldn't have thrown a punch for his life because he didn't have his feet under him in that whole gif. Connor puts him in zombie mode and devastates him with the intelligent use of uppercuts that Brimage neither sees nor can respond to.

 

[MC King]

thanks ts

 

[flanellograf]

Someone should do some gifs of Connors previous fight where he won his second Cage Rage belt. Some beautiful stuff there also.
The roundkick into a take down was great, and the ending is sublime.



EDIT: Found it

 

[M.V.P.]

That doesn't really refute the cookie cutter dig, which was what you originally responded to. And "just takes"... well, that really doesn't say much. It takes a pretty advanced striker to counter a counter, especially from another advanced striker, and mma isn't really chock full of them yet. Connor also seems to be good enough to adapt to different styles. He did say he expected Brimage to "overthrow" his shots. Looking at his other fights he does seem pretty well versed in slipping punches and positioning himself out of harms way.

To simply dismiss anyone who thinks conner keeping his hands low and chin in the air as a cookie cutter opinion is wrong. Unless you think it's cookie cutter if anyone says that about chuck. And I'm talking about the top strikers in his division will love the openings if he fights them in the same way... Just as Rampage loved the opening Chuck left in their second fight.

 

[a guy]

This so much is true.

People always tell me to get my hands up. But since I started letting my forward hand down nad my rear hand high, my striking has improved 3 fold. Including my defense. I get hit about 1 3rd the amount than when I had a traditional high guard. For some reason in reminds me to keep moving and using angles. I duck more too. When I had my high guard I tended to get hit with a lot of straight punches. I also improved since embracing myself as a counterstriker instead of an aggressive high volume combo striker. Plus I still block kicks just as easily because I see them coming a split second sooner plus shoulder rolls can actually defend kicks well if you are already ducking a punch, however I will still use a high guard if I am going against someone who throws a lot of high kicks.

I dunno, I just feel you guys are right from my own experiences.

Lead hand lower and rear hand higher is my preferred guard as well. However, I should probably make it clear that I'm not saying everyone should walk around with their hands like Connor, I'm just explaining that the advantages it gives completely match his style and really don't leave him open because of the way he moves, when he chooses to throw and what he chooses to throw. There are all types of ways to hold your hands and all can be used for different purposes. For example, you can extend your arms to hand fight like jones and the diaz brothers, you can keep your hands low to defend takedowns and throw from outside the opponents field of vision like Connor and JDS, you can keep them high to defend high kicks and clinch/elbow and for the most part none of it is right or wrong. It's just that some guards are more conducive to some tactics and I believe Connor's is perfect for what he does.

That's what it's all about, embracing your own style and changing around your stance, movement and guard to facilitate what you do.

 

[a guy]

Someone should do some gifs of Connors previous fight where he won his second Cage Rage belt. Some beautiful stuff there also.
The roundkick into a take down was great, and the ending is sublime.



EDIT: Found it

Wow. That gif shows great skill by Connor. He covers the opponent's lead hand to make him unable to throw anything but a right hand and makes it simple to slip said obvious right hand. Connor stones him with that counter. This thread is turning me into a big fan, the guy is clearly a very smart fighter.

 

[ravifreitas]

All abord the hype train!!!

 

[M.V.P.]

Once again, not necessarily. If you look closely at Machida's counter vs Jones, he attempts it while Jones is already in the middle of attacking him and while Machida has no angle. You say that angles are important, yet your example is a fighter getting caught when he has no angle and tries to counter an opponent who is already attacking without using head movement. In a case like that, yes, keeping your hands up is important because you have literally nothing else to rely on. It was a huge mistake by Machida. Also, if you really pay attention to Jones dropping Machida, you'll notice that Jones forces Machida's counter to miss by pushing his right hand into Machida's left bicep and forcing it outside Jones' head. In the Bader fight it's the same idea. Bader charges and Machida strikes at the same time, this time while blocking and it saves him but he still gets hit. What I'm trying to establish is that having your hands down only gets really risky when you have nothing else going for you.

Connor doesn't counterpunch in the same way that got Machida dropped in that scenario. He either moves to an angle (such as his outside angle in the finish) or hops back to avoid a punch then catches the opponent coming forward (such as his elbow counter). In other words, he hits at those times when the opponent either can't hit him, or at the very least can't hit him with anything harder than what he's throwing. If he was trying to counter charging opponents by throwing at the same time (instead of in between their strikes) then yes, he would most definitely need to keep his hands up.



If you look at the gifs and think he's open when throwing the uppercuts then you really need to take a closer look. In the first gif where he throws uppercuts, he lands the first one (with his left from southpaw) while Brimage ducks into it. Then, he follows it up with a right hook that knocks Brimage over to Connor's left. (because Brimage tries to kick and has no balance after eating the hook). With Brimage once again crouched down and this time off to the left, Connor's left uppercut that he throws is the perfect weapon to use and put him in less than no danger.

In the finish, he has Brimage completely wobbled and is knocking him around. Brimage couldn't have thrown a punch for his life because he didn't have his feet under him in that whole gif. Connor puts him in zombie mode and devastates him with the intelligent use of uppercuts that Brimage neither sees nor can respond to.

Conner stood and planted his feet on a few of his counters just as Machida did which means he's as a stationry target (should keep his hand up). Also the Machida Jones is exactly right Machida throw his shot with his free hand by his waist, while Jones kept his hand up thus blocking Machidas while landing his own (this is what I mean about keeping your hands up).

It's funny that you mentioned Chuck because I think he has similar flaws. Conner is open when he throws uppercuts ie; non throwing hand by his waist... see Chuck v Rashad for why I think it's a bad idea.

 

[Thunderkraken]

Awesome gifs. Thanks TS.

 

[flanellograf]

To simply dismiss anyone who thinks conner keeping his hands low and chin in the air as a cookie cutter opinion is wrong. Unless you think it's cookie cutter if anyone says that about chuck. And I'm talking about the top strikers in his division will love the openings if he fights them in the same way... Just as Rampage loved the opening Chuck left in their second fight.

It's not wrong. It's a fair assumption based on a generalization of people who say that very thing. In a majority of cases, people who say it haven't the foggiest what they are talking about.

 

[deise69]

He`s a really talented striker. Does he have any ground game?

Uploaded yesterday....



Link to him and the rest of the coaches at SBG http://sbgireland.com/index.php/instructors

 

[a guy]

Conner stood and planted his feet on a few of his counters just as Machida did which means he's as a stationry target (should keep his hand up). Also the Machida Jones is exactly right Machida throw his shot with his free hand by his waist, while Jones kept his hand up thus blocking Machidas while landing his own (this is what I mean about keeping your hands up).

It's funny that you mentioned Chuck because I think he has similar flaws. Conner is open when he throws uppercuts ie; non throwing hand by his waist... see Chuck v Rashad for why I think it's a bad idea.

Connor only plants his feet to counter when he's in a good position to do so in all of those gifs. He didn't do it in nearly the same way as Machida. First of all, they choose to counter at different times. In the examples given, Machida counters at the same time as the opponent strikes. Conversely, Connor counters in between his opponent's strikes. This may seem like a small detail, but it makes a huge difference.

Look at the gif where the elbow lands. Connor executes a hop step as Brimage throws a big right hook and simultaneously initiates a left elbow strike (attacking Brimage's right side) just as the right is ending. This allows his elbow to land before Brimage's punch even reaches full extension, plus he is well inside the left even if he didn't throw anything.

The only time Connor gets into extended exchanges with Brimage are when he's landing hard shots and keeping Brimage off balance or taking an angle. In the fifth gif, if you watch the exchange, this is one of the times where Connor stands right in front of his opponent. It actually shows 2 exchanges separated by a brief pause when Connor resets. First, Connor leads with a 1-2 at a squared up Brimage, which means he is at an inside angle to punch him. Since he has this inside angle, Brimage's counters go wide and Connor backs out with a lead hook. However, in the second exchange, he cracks Brimage with an uppercut that Brimage ducks into (which Connor saw him doing all fight) and when you land a shot like that, you're relatively safe to throw something else. He then lands a mean right hook that knocks Brimage off balance and leaves Brimage in no position to throw anything. As I said in my post, this hook puts Connor in a great position to throw an uppercut which he does.

In the other extended exchange, it is the end of the fight. Brimage wades in squared up and leaning slightly forward. Connor once again clubs him with an uppercut that is the beginning of the end. And sidesteps to his left. Brimage follows him so Connor changes direction and Brimage loses his balance trying to change directions as well (since he's rocked). Connor capitalizes on the compromised balance by throwing an uppercut, a right hook as he pivots and takes an outside angle to Brimage's left and the fight finishing left uppercut as Brimage turns to face him.

In other words, Connor is only throwing when he has successfully rocked the opponent enough to create an opening, outmaneuvered him to get an angle or otherwise caused the opponent to be off balance and unable to strike him back. Basically, you can't compare his counters with your example of Machida and conclude that hands down is dangerous. That would only hold up if you didn't have an understanding of angles and timing, because the fact is Connor's counters in that fight are very different from Machida's in the Jones and Bader fights. In those specific examples, Machida uses simultaneous counters (as in striking at the same time as the opponent) without achieving an angle so he needs his hands up. In Connor's fight, he used counters inbetween the opponent's strikes, while at an angle or both. These differences cannot be ignored in your argument.

As for the comparison to Chuck, I was basing that off the earlier parts of his career where he would knock people out from extreme angles, as well as the fact that both have good posture and power in both hands. The comparison to his fight with Rashad once again demonstrates an ignorance of angles because Chuck tried to lead with an uppercut without getting an angle, blocking or doing anything to prevent Rashad from cracking him with that overhand right. Until Connor starts throwing random uppercuts with no setup or defense while cornered against the cage, that comparison doesn't hold up either.

Essentially, all I'm saying is that Connor's guard is perfect for the way he fights and doesn't put him in half as much danger as you think. In fact, it primarily makes him more dangerous and unpredictable while serving as bait. Also, check out the gif posted by flanellograf where Connor demonstrates head movement and some hand fighting in a very intelligent finishing sequence.

 

[Kemeticsoul]

Keeping your hands up isn't the be all end all in boxing defense.

Distance management and angles, along with solid reflexes are also just as important.

It's also about being comfortable. Take a guy like Joe Calzaghe for example. He actually fought better when he dropped his hands. He felt more comfortable and it allowed him a greater vision. I've seen him get caught with shots with his hands up that he wouldn't have got hit with had he kept his hands down.

That's just a small example. You can't take every fighter and make them fight within a mold. Body type is also important.

Calzaghe had great reflexes and head movement, same as Roy Jones, hence them being able to fight the way they did.

Conor likes to counter-strike, and he is always getting angles so his hands are down. Nothing wrong with that. Silva does the same thing and he's the best striker of all time in MMA.

Conor fought tall against the much shorter Brimage. Klitschko 101. If you have a height and reach advantage you should be fighting tall.

Conor fought flawlessly despite his hands being at his waist.

 

[Yung Dilla]

Brimage fought stupid tho he rushed pretty much from the bell and even when he was hurt he kept rushing in and got tagged and finished.. He fought too emotional hates off to mcgregor

 

[Sturm]

Like I said to my friend when we watched the fight, that dudes accuracy is off the fucking charts

 

[Jubal]

A Conor McGregor thread not calling him the next champ or saying he'd destroy Aldo?

Refreshing.

Thanks TS.

 

[maksy]

great talent

 

[NorCalNinja]

forgot this one.