Economy The US has given Zelensky's govt $129 million PER DAY since the war started !

[JoeyJoeJoeJr]

I told you guys they would use the war to siphon the funds of the American people into corrupt politicians in Ukraine where it will be distributed back to the corrupt politicians in the US. The US uses every opportunity to scam the American people out of tax money and for political gain and money.

I pointed this out early on and was met with responses like "We've barely sent anything". The writing was on the wall, I said wait it's just the beginning and it was.

 

[Snubnoze707]

This started in 2022. It's 2023. How is that a forever war?

What concessions must be given for diplomacy? Who keeps what land?

No, this started in 2014. Their are US officials openly claiming they don't want this war to end anytime soon. That's the goal.

The eastern regions would likely become what they should have become from the very start in order to avoid all of this shit, The Peoples Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, but they will be under the Russian banner rather than the Ukranian one which could have been a reality prior to the invasion but the desires of the citizens in those regions were ignored and met with hostility instead.

 

[skold]

Sure skold. I understood and determined you're an idiot. There's no need to continue engaging.

You understood that your argument has zero merit and tried to save face by running away.

Remember when you argued yourself into a pretzel when you said that arming yourself against a home invader is defense... but then conviniently disappeared from the thread when you realized that you just made our argument for us? Yeah I remember. You are not intelligent Mr Holmes, you are just your average low IQ right winger

 

[Snubnoze707]

Russia completely denied the invasion was going to happen as Ukraine and the US were doing the actual begging.

So how does someone begs to negotiate peace when there was no war?

No they weren't, Putin had repeatedly warned of the invasion and the west ignored his warnings and kept doing the things that they knew would prompt it.

Nobody from the west was begging for Russia to not invade. They were begging for more weaponry to confront it.

 

[skold]

No they weren't, Putin had repeatedly warned of the invasion and the west ignored his warnings and kept doing the things that they knew would prompt it.

Nobody from the west was begging for Russia to not invade. They were begging for more weaponry to confront it.

Russia doesn't get to dictate what other sovereign nations get to do. You don't placate aggressors.

 

[skold]

No, this started in 2014. Their are US officials openly claiming they don't want this war to end anytime soon. That's the goal.

Oh so the conflict with Russia began in 2014? But I thought...

These people have been living in La La Land and didn't realize Ukraine had been shelling it's own citizens in the Donbas since 2014 long before the Russian invasion.

 

[Rod1]

No they weren't, Putin had repeatedly warned of the invasion and the west ignored his warnings and kept doing the things that they knew would prompt it.

Nobody from the west was begging for Russia to not invade. They were begging for more weaponry to confront it.

They ignored the warning so much that Ukraine was still not in NATO and no heavy weaponry was given to Ukraine.

Also when you say "Russia wants to negotiate" its almost as if you just picked this up and forget all the rounds of negotiation that happened when Russia was winning the war, they were correctly idenfitied as stall tactics by Russia in order to prevent Ukraine from getting real help.

When those failed its when HIMARS were given to Ukraine.

Russia can't ask surrender type terms without winning the war, you are clearly saying Russia deserves to get treated like a victor in a war, which is obvious considering your "negotiation" implies a defeated Ukraine.

 

[Mr Holmes]

You understood that your argument has zero merit and tried to save face by running away.

Remember when you argued yourself into a pretzel when you said that arming yourself against a home invader is defense... but then conviniently disappeared from the thread when you realized that you just made our argument for us? Yeah I remember. You are not intelligent Mr Holmes, you are just your average low IQ right winger

Try reading the thread. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[skold]

And just like that they are all silent again, furiously googling a response

 

[Snubnoze707]

They ignored the warning so much that Ukraine was still not in NATO and no heavy weaponry was given to Ukraine.

Also when you say "Russia wants to negotiate" its almost as if you just picked this up and forget all the rounds of negotiation that happened when Russia was winning the war, they were correctly idenfitied as stall tactics by Russia in order to prevent Ukraine from getting real help.

When those failed its when HIMARS were given to Ukraine.

Russia can't ask surrender type terms without winning the war, you are clearly saying Russia deserves to get treated like a victor in a war, which is obvious considering your "negotiation" implies a defeated Ukraine.

First off I want to say thanks for actually engaging on points rather than lame "Your dumb" takes.

You know why they aren't in NATO right now, that puts everyone in a hot war. They aren't ready for that, which is why they are bleeding out Ukrainian conscripts in place.

I'm not going to sit here and try and dictate the specifics of the negotiation. That is well above my pay grade, as it is yours. I really don't care if Russia gets land or not, I'm just being realistic. Here's the reality - you have two options. Negotiate peace or continue fighting.

Ukraine has a stated goal that victory to them means retrieving the eastern regions including Crimea.

Do you think that is even remotely possible? After that embarrassing "counter offensive" what makes you think this is a reality? So why continue to shove Ukrainian soldiers into a meat grinder for a completely unrealistic cause?

Or, you have the west get FULLY involved and we start World War III. I think the best solution is obvious.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Try reading the thread. You're embarrassing yourself.

Why, so I can read Sherdoggers claim their wont be an invasion? Not sure how that equates to Russia claiming their wont be one.

 

[skold]

First off I want to say thanks for actually engaging on points rather than lame "Your dumb" takes.

You know why they aren't in NATO right now, that puts everyone in a hot war. They aren't ready for that, which is why they are bleeding out Ukrainian conscripts in place.

I'm not going to sit here and try and dictate the specifics of the negotiation. That is well above my pay grade, as it is yours. I really don't care if Russia gets land or not, I'm just being realistic. Here's the reality - you have two options. Negotiate peace or continue fighting.

Ukraine has a stated goal that victory to them means retrieving the eastern regions including Crimea.

Do you think that is even remotely possible? After that embarrassing "counter offensive" what makes you think this is a reality? So why continue to shove Ukrainian soldiers into a meat grinder for a completely unrealistic cause?

Or, you have the west get FULLY involved and we start World War III. I think the best solution is obvious.

What happens when next year Russia decides it wants more of the Ukranian land? Continue "peace" deals where Ukraine just gives the entirety of their country away?

 

[Mr Holmes]

Why, so I can read Sherdoggers claim their wont be an invasion? Not sure how that equates to Russia claiming their wont be one.

My bad that was meant for @skold's comment over the one I replied to

 

[skold]

My bad that was meant for @skold's comment over the one I replied to

Your brain is malfunctioning today huh

 

[Mr Holmes]

Your brain is malfunctioning today huh

Sick burn.

 

[Rod1]

Ukraine has a stated goal that victory to them means retrieving the eastern regions including Crimea.

Do you think that is even remotely possible? After that embarrassing "counter offensive" what makes you think this is a reality? So why continue to shove Ukrainian soldiers into a meat grinder for a completely unrealistic cause?

Or, you have the west get FULLY involved and we start World War III. I think the best solution is obvious.

Do you think its also possible for Ukraine to trust Russia at this point where Russia wants a completely demilitarized and neutral Ukraine?

Ukraine needs more security guarantees than simply Putin saying "We won't invade seriously" best case scenario would be Russia keeps some land, Ukraine enters NATO and you put a shitload of troops and mines in the new borders.

These are conditions which Russia has shot down entirely.

So i ask this question again

"How do you bring Russia to the table with realistic demands?"

 

[Whippy McGee]

Watching the Left Cult transform into war mongers so the Democrats and Establishment can make a fortune has been an interesting exercise in propaganda.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Do you think its also possible for Ukraine to trust Russia at this point where Russia wants a completely demilitarized and neutral Ukraine?

Ukraine needs more security guarantees than simply Putin saying "We won't invade seriously" best case scenario would be Russia keeps some land, Ukraine enters NATO and you put a shitload of troops and mines in the new borders.

These are conditions which Russia has shot down entirely.

So i ask this question again

"How do you bring Russia to the table with realistic demands?"

I'll answer your question. I could destroy Russia quickly and efficiently, while building up the U.S. and Europe's ability to resist them indefinitely.

Step 1: Push Europe to build modern nuclear plants, thereby not needing Russia's oil and gas.
Step 2: Have Europe build more LING ports for U.S. Ships
Step 2: Have the U.S. go full blast on oil and gas production, including building new refineries and increase our fleet of LING ships

Done.

You see, Russia earns over 80% of its economy from Oil and Gas. Cut their balls off economically and it's over.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Do you think its also possible for Ukraine to trust Russia at this point where Russia wants a completely demilitarized and neutral Ukraine?

Ukraine needs more security guarantees than simply Putin saying "We won't invade seriously" best case scenario would be Russia keeps some land, Ukraine enters NATO and you put a shitload of troops and mines in the new borders.

These are conditions which Russia has shot down entirely.

So i ask this question again

"How do you bring Russia to the table with realistic demands?"

Ukraine isn't exactly a trustworthy party either. What guarantees does Russia have that NATO wont go on the offensive against them?

What you propose sounds like a recipe for World War III.

Again, I ask you... if you are against negotiation then what is the alternative?

 

[skysolo]

Of course everything is propaganda except propaganda.

You seem to be unaware of anything regarding Ukraine before 2022. You may want to do a quick interwebs search and found out what was happening.