Top 10 Submission in Nogi Grappling

[Chandler sama]

I complied a list of the top 10 submissions in Nogi grappling using stats(not my personal opinion). Were you surprised by any of them? Do you think any will be gone next year?

 

[Quebec Nick]

A bit surprised as how high guillotines are

It's an eye opener


For real, it's the only system that I've not implemented into my game

I pretty much suck at everything, from the setups to the finishing mechanics

And I do other stuff, like d'arces and anacondas

 

[Chandler sama]

A bit surprised as how high guillotines are

It's an eye opener


For real, it's the only system that I've not implemented into my game

I pretty much suck at everything, from the setups to the finishing mechanics

And I do other stuff, like d'arces and anacondas

Guillotines are really useful and they definitely finish people. They're useful because they can be locked up from many different places and they can come on fast. Thanks for watching.

 

[Da Speeit]

A bit surprised as how high guillotines are

It's an eye opener


For real, it's the only system that I've not implemented into my game

I pretty much suck at everything, from the setups to the finishing mechanics

And I do other stuff, like d'arces and anacondas

The over-dependence on double leg takedowns lead us to this. They’re effective is wrestling, but even statistically, if you shoot when your opponent is fresh you actually have a better chance of losing.

In jiu jitsu competition, where the neck is a viable attack, a double-leg against a fresh opponent will statistically get you finished more than it will allow you the td.

That’s why i stray more toward head-inside attacks, mostly single-legs to start and save the double for tired or off-balanced opponents.

If you havent seen the most recent Dake/Burroughs clash, I suggest giving it a watch. Take note of how many times the guy with the best double leg of all time is negated by pressure on the neck. Now imagine if Dake could wrap a guillotine. It’s actually nuts

 

[EndlessCritic]

The over-dependence on double leg takedowns lead us to this. They’re effective is wrestling, but even statistically, if you shoot when your opponent is fresh you actually have a better chance of losing.

In jiu jitsu competition, where the neck is a viable attack, a double-leg against a fresh opponent will statistically get you finished more than it will allow you the td.

That’s why i stray more toward head-inside attacks, mostly single-legs to start and save the double for tired or off-balanced opponents.

If you havent seen the most recent Dake/Burroughs clash, I suggest giving it a watch. Take note of how many times the guy with the best double leg of all time is negated by pressure on the neck. Now imagine if Dake could wrap a guillotine. It’s actually nuts

I watch very little grappling, but I don't buy that shitty double legs are getting elite grapplers guillotined in competition in 2023.

The guillotine is a powerful submission and option from so many positions.

 

[Da Speeit]

I watch very little grappling, but I don't buy that shitty double legs are getting elite grapplers guillotined in competition in 2023.

The guillotine is a powerful submission and option from so many positions.

i watch a ton of grappling
Where do you think the vast majority of guillotines happen?

 

[EndlessCritic]

i watch a ton of grappling
Where do you think the vast majority of guillotines happen?

After establishing a wrestling style front headlock off of a sprawl

As a counter when an opponent tries to wrestle up from bottom side control, open guard or half guard.

Initiated from the top position, including top turtle.

 

[Da Speeit]

After establishing a wrestling style front headlock off of a sprawl

As a counter when an opponent tries to wrestle up from bottom side control, open guard or half guard.

Initiated from the top position, including top turtle.

Sprawling from what?
Wrestling up with what?
Turtle from where?

Count how many lazy shots and wrestle ups are in this video

 

[EndlessCritic]

Sprawling from what?
Wrestling up with what?
Turtle from where?

Count how many lazy shots and wrestle ups are in this video

Umm... I'd count about 4 shitty double legs resulting in guillotines, with the remaining guillotines falling into categories that I described.

 

[Da Speeit]

Umm... I'd count about 4 shitty double legs resulting in guillotines, with the remaining guillotines falling into categories that I described.

Yes, wrestilng up to a double leg position. Sorry you dont know what youre watching, but you can do a seated double leg

 

[EndlessCritic]

Yes, wrestilng up to a double leg position. Sorry you dont know what youre watching, but you can do a seated double leg

Apologies that you confuse what appears to be a semantic disagreement with me not knowing what I'm watching.

When people typically refer to shitty double legs, they're referring to technical deficiencies from a double leg initiated from a standing position. (ie: Poor level change, bad penetration step, not properly creating an angle, not properly driving with the trail leg).

Virtually none of these deficiencies are even possible to correct from wrestling up from a seated position. As such, when people get guillotined while wrestling up, it does not make sense to me to cite poor double leg mechanics as the reason why they are getting guillotined.

 

[Banana Tree's Nemesis]

Now you two landed at some sort of disagreement, but I think it's a fair point to conclude that wrapping both arms around both legs of the opponent in context of initiating a positional change is a troubling idea for submission grappling due to the fact that the guillotine or rather front headlocks in general are much worse of a position to find oneself in when submissions are allowed.

 

[shunyata]

Nice to see ankle locks and toeholds getting some credit.

A few years back some people were acting like the heel hook is the only leglock that works.

 

[ChickenBrother]

The over-dependence on double leg takedowns lead us to this. They’re effective is wrestling, but even statistically, if you shoot when your opponent is fresh you actually have a better chance of losing.

In jiu jitsu competition, where the neck is a viable attack, a double-leg against a fresh opponent will statistically get you finished more than it will allow you the td.

That’s why i stray more toward head-inside attacks, mostly single-legs to start and save the double for tired or off-balanced opponents.

If you havent seen the most recent Dake/Burroughs clash, I suggest giving it a watch. Take note of how many times the guy with the best double leg of all time is negated by pressure on the neck. Now imagine if Dake could wrap a guillotine. It’s actually nuts

While I agree with the sentiment, I think it's a little misguided to use Dake/Burroughs as an example. Dake is famous for, and has pretty much the best chest wrap counter to a double leg in all of wrestling. No one else has been shutting down Burrough's shots like that and let's not forget that Burroughs previously beat and forced Dake to go up a weight class, until he eventually came back down and became the man at 74 kg when Burroughs was old as shit.

But like I said, I agree with the sentiment and never understood why BJJ guys favor them so much. They're great if you're explosive AF and time the level change and penetration perfectly. But if you get sprawled on, you're in trouble and will probably get put on your back, front headlocked or at best end up giving up the TD.

 

[Da Speeit]

Apologies that you confuse what appears to be a semantic disagreement with me not knowing what I'm watching.

When people typically refer to shitty double legs, they're referring to technical deficiencies from a double leg initiated from a standing position. (ie: Poor level change, bad penetration step, not properly creating an angle, not properly driving with the trail leg).

Virtually none of these deficiencies are even possible to correct from wrestling up from a seated position. As such, when people get guillotined while wrestling up, it does not make sense to me to cite poor double leg mechanics as the reason why they are getting guillotined.

Completely wrong on the wrestle up department

 

[ChessJitsu]

1. Rear Naked Choke
2. Heel Hook
3. Guillotine Choke
4. Armbar
5. Kimura
6. Triangle Choke
7. D'arce Choke
8. Arm Triangle Choke
9. Toehold
10. Kneebar

 

[shunyata]

Apologies that you confuse what appears to be a semantic disagreement with me not knowing what I'm watching.

When people typically refer to shitty double legs, they're referring to technical deficiencies from a double leg initiated from a standing position. (ie: Poor level change, bad penetration step, not properly creating an angle, not properly driving with the trail leg).

Virtually none of these deficiencies are even possible to correct from wrestling up from a seated position. As such, when people get guillotined while wrestling up, it does not make sense to me to cite poor double leg mechanics as the reason why they are getting guillotined.

I wrestle up into low singles.

There's no real guillotine threat from there and you have an entry to the legs if you can't finish it on top.

I also judo up by throwing from turtle.