Who hits harder Fury or Ngannou?

[Prex32]

if both landed at the same time clean fury would get up at 9s
and francis would wake up in the hospital the next day
francis might be a truck, but fury is a train in comparison

 

[kflo]

Again, there’s a massive difference between stopping an elite boxer with 10oz gloves and stopping an elite MMA fighter with MMA gloves.

There is no ‘make him more powerful’ in this. There is no way of me literally proving to you that one hits harder than the other, and I could just as easily allude to the fact that Fury’s excellent inside game would make him a force to be recognised with Ngannou in the clinch in MMA.

Because we can’t definitely prove it, we take what we know and extrapolate. What we know is that boxers have - on average - better punch resistance and significantly more power. What we have seen is MMA fighters go into boxing, and suddenly lose much of their power by MMA standards. We’ve seen Fury stop those elite level boxers with gloves not entirely dissimilar to those that resulted in McGregor’s power looking…..rather pitiful in all honesty. He would be considered up there as one of the hardest hitting featherweights of all time in MMA, but didn’t have the power to stop an old, ultra cautious fighter who he outweighed by about 25lbs, from simply putting his guard up and walking him down.

We go with the balance of evidence and that’s heavily in Fury’s favour. I can’t prove it to be the case, but I’m still failing to see an actual argument for Ngannou other than lack of proof, which is hardly an argument in itself.

c'mon. you're using fuckin mcgregor in his boxing debut against the best defensive boxer of his generation and possibly all time as a reference point for translating mma power to boxing.

that's your evidence. 1 fight with the best defensive boxer.

 

[Boxingfan998]

It matters. But will matters more, and the Gypsy King's got lots of will.
And I think he hits harder than Francis.

The problem with Francis is that although he has lots of raw power (as does any HW), it's translating that power into an effective punch that's difficult.
This is why you can't just put any heavy hitting dude in boxing and expect him to win.
It's not that simple.

 

[Khaiser]

c'mon. you're using fuckin mcgregor in his boxing debut against the best defensive boxer of his generation and possibly all time as a reference point for translating mma power to boxing.

that's your evidence. 1 fight with the best defensive boxer.

Yes.

In all likelihood the hardest hitting featherweight in UFC history going into boxing and having a level of power that means the most safety first boxing champion of my lifetime can literally laugh at him and stalk him down, means there’s a massive power differential.

Again, it shouldn’t come as a surprise. It’s all boxers do and unsurprisingly they get damn good at it. Accuracy, timing and technique go hand in hand with power, and can absolutely get better with training.

 

[djason1988]

Y'all dumb af.

Ngannou is the harder hitter for sure. Fury has never been a one hitter quitter. He gets tkos via volume, and frankly speaking Wilders chin isn't granite either.

 

[kflo]

Yes.

In all likelihood the hardest hitting featherweight in UFC history going into boxing and having a level of power that means the most safety first boxing champion of my lifetime can literally laugh at him and stalk him down, means there’s a massive power differential.

Again, it shouldn’t come as a surprise. It’s all boxers do and unsurprisingly they get damn good at it. Accuracy, timing and technique go hand in hand with power, and can absolutely get better with training.

It would be just as stupid to point to jcc jr’s lack of power against an old mma fighter in boxing. Or Paulie in bkf to suggest boxers have no power. To generalize is just dumb. Ngannou trains to hurt people with his hands. He does it better than just about anyone who ever did it. But boxing is just magical and anyone who trains in it develops tremendous power. It’s absurd. Boxing isn’t just about who hits the hardest.

 

[Street Samurai]

There is a very old saying in boxing, punchers are born not made. Technique helps you to land punches not to punch hard. Foreman's technique was terrible and Wilder's is not that good either.

To be honest, that.saying is pretty much bullshit. There's a lot of technique involved in throwing a hard punch. Sure, some people are more natural punchers than others, but a power puncher is as much born as a 100mph pitcher

 

[campbecc]

To be honest, that.saying is pretty much bullshit. There's a lot of technique involved in throwing a hard punch. Sure, some people are more natural punchers than others, but a power puncher is as much born as a 100mph pitcher

Do you think it's their technique that makes them able to throw a 100 mph fastball? Do you think it's something that can be taught? An average man can't throw a baseball faster than in the 70s no matter their technique or conditioning, next to no one can throw a 100 mph fastball and it is almost exclusively based on talent and being in proper condition. Controlling the location of the pitch is based on skill throwing hard is a gift.

How many trained fighters do you think could have hit harder than Wilder before his first day of training in boxing?

 

[Street Samurai]

Do you think it's their technique that makes them able to throw a 100 mph fastball? Do you think it's something that can be taught? An average man can't throw a baseball faster than in the 70s no matter their technique or conditioning, next to no one can throw a 100 mph fastball and it is almost exclusively based on talent and being in proper condition. Controlling the location of the pitch is based on skill throwing hard is a gift.

How many trained fighters do you think could have hit harder than Wilder before his first day of training in boxing?

Of course it's their technique (and conditioning) that makes them throw that fast. But as you said you also needs the right genetics to do so, and only.a select few can do so. Same thing for a punchers. sure some persons are naturally harder punchers than others, but you also need to work on the technique to be able to be one of the hardest.puncher in the world.

As for your last question, if we are strictly talking about hw? Id guess a ton of them

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

I

Boxers hit significantly harder on average.

Boxers have better chins on average.

Hitting hard and having the ability to take punches is their bread and butter. It’s their raison d'être if you like.

Fury participates in that sport, and knocks out those better chinned men while wearing 10oz gloves.

Genuinely, I’m not even sure what the rational argument here is for Ngannou, other than that he hypothetically could.

The bolded is correct, of course. But there are outliers. Ngannou is the biggest puncher in MMA history by far, while Fury is generally considered to be quite pillow fisted in boxing terms. Its not average vs average in that comparison.

Fury can KO people but its not really down to punching power, its him having the skills to land consistently and break people down over time. He dropped Wilder in I think the second, then didnt fully put him out until the 11th even though Wilder was practically out on his feet and wide open for a good portion of that time. Thats accumulative damage more than power.

Trying to think of who Fury has really clean KO'd and the only one coming to mind is Cunningham, who weighed less than Paulo Costa currently does.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Fury knocked out wilder twice. It doesn’t mean he hits harder than wilder. C’mon.

Why are people trying to change it to a who would win a fight debate? Ali knocked out foreman. He doesn’t hit harder than foreman.

Actually we're arguing that the important number is who can deliver the most damage on target in a match rather than who can hit a non-defending stationary target harder.

In terms of actual power transmitted to a punch my bet would be on an Olympic level shotputter, just based on sports science (its the most powerful non-mechanical motion that's been measured in sports). Of course they're all freaky strong 300+ pounds (ie they don't need to worry about stamina at all so can work on pure power) and jump into it, so they'd never land the punch in the ring or cage and would gas out in far less than a minute if they fought, but if its just about power delivered against a non-defending stationary target I'd happily bet they beat Fury, Ngannou, Wilder and anyone else and probably by a considerable margin. For that matter, I suspect someone like Brian Shaw beats actual fighters too.

The important number for a fighter is how hard they can land on target in a fight.

 

[kflo]

Actually we're arguing that the important number is who can deliver the most damage on target in a match rather than who can hit a non-defending stationary target harder.

In terms of actual power transmitted to a punch my bet would be on an Olympic level shotputter, just based on sports science (its the most powerful non-mechanical motion that's been measured in sports). Of course they're all freaky strong 300+ pounds (ie they don't need to worry about stamina at all so can work on pure power) and jump into it, so they'd never land the punch in the ring or cage and would gas out in far less than a minute if they fought, but if its just about power delivered against a non-defending stationary target I'd happily bet they beat Fury, Ngannou, Wilder and anyone else and probably by a considerable margin. For that matter, I suspect someone like Brian Shaw beats actual fighters too.

The important number for a fighter is how hard they can land on target in a fight.

we are talking about ngannou because he's actually knocked out good fighters at a rate and speed we've never seen in his sport. not because he broke some record in a lab.

and no, i wouldn't bet on a shot putter. i'd bet on the guys who actually know how to punch......

 

[YourBoss]

The bolded is correct, of course. But there are outliers. Ngannou is the biggest puncher in MMA history by far, while Fury is generally considered to be quite pillow fisted in boxing terms. Its not average vs average in that comparison.

Fury can KO people but its not really down to punching power, its him having the skills to land consistently and break people down over time. He dropped Wilder in I think the second, then didnt fully put him out until the 11th even though Wilder was practically out on his feet and wide open for a good portion of that time. Thats accumulative damage more than power.

Trying to think of who Fury has really clean KO'd and the only one coming to mind is Cunningham, who weighed less than Paulo Costa currently does.

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

we are talking about ngannou because he's actually knocked out good fighters at a rate and speed we've never seen in his sport. not because he broke some record in a lab.

and no, i wouldn't bet on a shot putter. i'd bet on the guys who actually know how to punch......

Ngannou hasn't fought the level of boxers that Fury has, so you're comparing his KO record against lesser punchers vs Fury's record against the best punchers in the world. You seem to at least partially agree its about being able to land power rather than power against a stationary target. So the question becomes: If Ngannou and Fury fought in a punching only match (ie boxing), who would do more damage? That's by far the most important question. I suspect Fury (ie I believe he'd knock Ngannou out before the end of the match). If they fought in MMA I suspect Ngannou would win just as easily (he'd just take Fury down and submit him).

In terms of stationary targets, guys who know how to punch also have to spend time on the stamina that allows them to do so for a long match (ie they cannot work solely on power to the detriment of their stamina), and they have to work on delivering power quickly. Shot putters (besides being considerably bigger than Ngannou) spend most of their training in developing one-shot power, and because there is no opponent they specialize on a good wind-up that allows all the power of their legs and hips to be delivered thru their hand.

If the rule was a punch thrown without foot movement (ie a planted punch) I'd bet on Ngannou. But if movement is allowed and the target is stationary I'm going with the bigger and stronger guys who train in exactly transferring as much power to their hand as possible. Its debatable of course, but I'd confidently bet on it.

 

[kflo]

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

is this a serious post? i can't tell.....

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

The four ounce gloves makes almost no difference, the extra glove weight is padding around the fingers etc to protect the hands, not to make the boxing punches softer. The main punching difference between MMA gloves and boxing gloves is that the MMA gloves are too small to be used in blocking the way boxing gloves are. The actual concussive impact is about the same. Ngannou would hit as hard in boxing as he does in MMA, though I suspect he'd connect far less frequently.

People think gloves were introduced into boxing to protect the person being punched, but that's simply not the case. They were introduced into boxing (and I suspect MMA) because too many fighters were breaking their hands against skulls when it was bare knuckle, and the promoters got tired of their big names being unable to fight.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

Lol seriously? Hes absolutely brutally KO'd three top 10 ranked opponents, two in the first round, one in 20 seconds. The Reem KO is one of the most violent ive ever seen in any combat sport. He also flatlined some guy in his UFC debut and did the same to a few opponents pre-UFC. For a guy that has less than 20 fights he has quite a few brutal one shot power demonstrating KO wins.

As for the gloves/boxing skill thing. Its not really a fair criteria to add into the equation is it? Ngannou is an MMA fighter and he fights with MMA gloves. We can only go by what we see him do in that environment. A lot of the guys Fury has KO (even soft KO) victories over are bums anyway, shit Reem, Stipe, JDS and Rozenstruik could probably KO a fair few of them too.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

Lets go

i believe fury. ngganou is like wilder, they load up so much in their power shots. anyone winging full body mass hail merrys on paper hits harder, but look at the body work and tight punches tyson was throwing against wilder. much more power and torque with far less effort

i guess one can say ngganou if you want to as he does load up with everything, but im going to go with the guy who gets max power with much less effort

 

[spinup]

Who has ngannou koed clean? according to boxing rules. putting them down for a 10 count? maybe 2-3 guys. in 4 oz gloves. most of them past prime. with little boxing skill.

Stipe, Rozenstruik, Overeem, Henrique. That's 4 in 13 UFC fights.
Which is more than Fury's entire career.

i believe fury. ngganou is like wilder, they load up so much in their power shots. anyone winging full body mass hail merrys on paper hits harder, but look at the body work and tight punches tyson was throwing against wilder. much more power and torque with far less effort

i guess one can say ngganou if you want to as he does load up with everything, but im going to go with the guy who gets max power with much less effort

So now we've got a champion who basically argues that Fury punches harder than Wilder.
This fucking thread is mental.

 

[10000yearsold]

Obligatory Ngonnou would kill Wilder in an MMA fight..

which MMA technique would Ngannou employ to kill wilder?