why doesn't Khabib fight in ADCC?!

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Well yes if he went in with 2 months prep that'd be bad but even so Khabib knows and trains leg locks. Hell everyone does nowadays. It isn't 2017 anymore, leg locks are a standard these days. Heelhooks are sneaky and can finish anyone who in a flash but thats just the nature of the beast. Low margin of error with those.

Leg locks are less of a concern then the overall point meta imo.

How long do you think he would need? I think it would take at least 9 months to get comfortable enough with them to avoid them, yeah he knows leg locks on some level, but unless you're in high level BJJ rooms on a very consistent basis learning to deal with them it's gonna be a big hole in your game. I don't know how Khabib could've taken the time to do that in the past few years

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

How long do you think he would need? I think it would take at least 9 months to get comfortable enough with them to avoid them, yeah he knows leg locks on some level, but unless you're in high level BJJ rooms on a very consistent basis learning to deal with them it's gonna be a big hole in your game. I don't know how Khabib could've taken the time to do that in the past few years

The bulk of Khabib's training is pure grappling. He spends a lot of time filling holes in his game. I've seen him work cross body ride entries for calf crushes. He had to have known a good bit from the years of Sambo. Its not out of the realm of possibility that he has a solid base in leg locks. Apparently he found the time to completely rework his ground game with Leandro post knee surgery so you never know.

I've always said with a year purely focused on grappling he'd have a good chance to hit the podium and I'll stick to that. I think leg lock defense primarily comes from. Killing the guard removing opportunity. If you're at the high level an they isolate your legs its gonna be a bad time.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

The bulk of Khabib's training is pure grappling. He spends a lot of time filling holes in his game. I've seen him work cross body ride entries for calf crushes. He had to have known a good bit from the years of Sambo. Its not out of the realm of possibility that he has a solid base in leg locks. Apparently he found the time to completely rework his ground game with Leandro post knee surgery so you never know.

I've always said with a year purely focused on grappling he'd have a good chance to hit the podium and I'll stick to that. I think leg lock defense primarily comes from. Killing the guard removing opportunity. If you're at the high level an they isolate your legs its gonna be a bad time.

I agree he would do well with a year focused on grappling

If Garry Tonon and Khabib had a BJJ match right now what do you think would happen though?

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

I agree he would do well with a year focused on grappling

If Garry Tonon and Khabib had a BJJ match right now what do you think would happen though?

Right now? Garry because he is still training on a pro's schedule. It would be closer than most would think.tho. if Khabib got an early takedown Gary would have trouble recovering that ground but he'd manage. 1 years prep its hard to say but I'd give Khabib a solid chance depending on the rules

 

[kenetics]

maybe he wants to prove how superior Sambo is compared to jiu jitsu in ADCC?! Khabib has fought all his life, that feeling of competing never goes away.

look Evander will fight with Almost 60 years old.

True warriors never lose the will to compete.

Guys who won sambo world champions don't win ADCC. They do well but eventually get beat by the top bjj players.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Guys who won sambo world champions don't win ADCC. They do well but eventually get beat by the top bjj players.

Got any examples?

 

[kenetics]

I agree he would do well with a year focused on grappling

If Garry Tonon and Khabib had a BJJ match right now what do you think would happen though?

Depends on ruleset. Gary pretty good if no time limit. If their is a time limit, I can seen khabib controlling Gary but not really threatening him with any subs.

Gary is not even the top of the food chain in that weight class either.

 

[kenetics]

Got any examples?

Rustum Chsiev is probably the best guy I saw.

You have to remember that anyone can do the adcc trial with any grappling background to qualify for adcc. Most bjj and wrestlers win trials and move on to ADCC .

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Rustum Chsiev is probably the best guy I saw.

You have to remember that anyone can do the adcc trial with any grappling background to qualify for adcc. Most bjj and wrestlers win trials and move on to ADCC .

Thats the only guy I even remember doing trials in the past decade. There is not a lot of crossover between Sambo and bjj. I feel like its a (unintentionally) disingenuous comparison. There are just way more wrestlers and bjj guys that try out. Of the numbers were equal then I feel like we could make a solid call

 

[moosaev]

You said he would be like a fish in water in a pure grappling environment, he would not be

The context of the “fish in water” comment is that the other guy said Khabib is so used to mma in which punches are mixed in, that he would be uncomfortable in a purely grappling scenario. This is categorically false. He’s been grappling his whole life, it’s second nature to him. Whether he’s at the level of top ADCC contestants is a completely separate topic. Like I said, irrelevant.

 

[Coconutwater]

Submissions aren't the only way to win. Most high level matches are just who can get the first point and control the fight. ADCC rules heavily favor his style of fighting

Khabib would always do a respectable job, but even with the assumed advantage in the ruleset, he ain't having much success against ADCC elite in pure grappling, particularly with the DDS approach that's been trending for a long time. It doesn't matter if Khabib and his crew trained at Renzo's, you just can't learn this crap quickly and without doing it every single day. The modern style used in ADCC now is very complex, Khabib had to use his brain to win a Grapplers Quest event for heaven-sakes. I'm not saying Khabib isn't a natural talent, he's the best overall fighter in the world who uses grappling as his base, but this isn't fighting and the modern submission game has so many entries that unless Khabib dedicated himself non-stop for 2 years, I don't see him winning gold or silver. Of course, if Khabib quit everything to train, maybe...

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Khabib would always do a respectable job, but even with the assumed advantage in the ruleset, he ain't having much success against ADCC elite in pure grappling, particularly with the DDS approach that's been trending for a long time. It doesn't matter if Khabib and his crew trained at Renzo's, you just can't learn this crap quickly and without doing it every single day. The modern style used in ADCC now is very complex, Khabib had to use his brain to win a Grapplers Quest event for heaven-sakes. I'm not saying Khabib isn't a natural talent, he's the best overall fighter in the world who uses grappling as his base, but this isn't fighting and the modern submission game has so many entries that unless Khabib dedicated himself non-stop for 2 years, I don't see him winning gold or silver. Of course, if Khabib quit everything to train, maybe...

I'm not saying he turns up overnight and win. I'm just saying he's already super high level. Give him a year of non stop grappling with Renzo and he'll be podium quality imo. Adcc heavily rewards takedowns which is a big advantage for him. And Khabib's speciality is denying and killing the guard so thats a great place to start.

With time he'd do great

 

[Coconutwater]

I'm not saying he turns up overnight and win. I'm just saying he's already super high level. Give him a year of non stop grappling with Renzo and he'll be podium quality imo. Adcc heavily rewards takedowns which is a big advantage for him. And Khabib's speciality is denying and killing the guard so thats a great place to start.

With time he'd do great

There are a lot of Dagestani fighters, who have strong wrestling and sambo backgrounds. Unlike Khabib, they're hurting for cash. You would think we would see more of these guys medaling in ADCC in order to pick up a nice check, courtesy of the Shiek.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Right now? Garry because he is still training on a pro's schedule. It would be closer than most would think.tho. if Khabib got an early takedown Gary would have trouble recovering that ground but he'd manage. 1 years prep its hard to say but I'd give Khabib a solid chance depending on the rules

I guess that's where we disagree, I think if they trained right now Garry would tap him fairly quickly and easily

But like I said if Khabib dedicated his life to winning ADCC for a year I think he would do ok, I doubt he would win, but who knows

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Depends on ruleset. Gary pretty good if no time limit. If their is a time limit, I can seen khabib controlling Gary but not really threatening him with any subs.

Gary is not even the top of the food chain in that weight class either.

He's #1 on the Flograppling 170 ranking, I'm just using him as a random example of a high level guy close to Khabib's size though

I have to disagree, I think Gary would sub Khabib fairly easily. Even someone as good as Gilbert Burns couldn't handle his leg lock game, I don't see how Khabib could

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

There are a lot of Dagestani fighters, who have strong wrestling and sambo backgrounds. Unlike Khabib, they're hurting for cash. You would think we would see more of these guys medaling in ADCC in order to pick up a nice check, courtesy of the Shiek.

I agree most wouldn't do well, but remember it's insanely hard to live in Dagestan and come up with funds to train BJJ and make it to the trials. And even if you win the absolute you get like 40k or something lol.

 

[djason1988]

He's not at that level, pure and simple. He's a fantastic grappler, but that's in the context of mma where he can punch. In pure grappling, he'd be destroyed by the world's best.

 

[kenetics]

He's #1 on the Flograppling 170 ranking, I'm just using him as a random example of a high level guy close to Khabib's size though

I have to disagree, I think Gary would sub Khabib fairly easily. Even someone as good as Gilbert Burns couldn't handle his leg lock game, I don't see how Khabib could

Ya. Flow ranking are suspect . They pick and choose who they want to market. JT Torres is number one in that weight class. Since he's the reigning adcc champ.

 

[Coconutwater]

I agree most wouldn't do well, but remember it's insanely hard to live in Dagestan and come up with funds to train BJJ and make it to the trials. And even if you win the absolute you get like 40k or something lol.

I was just making a point that even Sambo guys or people from Dagestan won’t automatically do great at ADCC, you need to really specialize in it to win…

Brazil has some hard up folks, they manage to compete at ADCC. But yes, you’re right, in general, less opportunity in Dagestan. It’s a shame, they need a million dollar slush fund to pay for their people to compete in submission, it would be neat to see them.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Ya. Flow ranking are suspect . They pick and choose who they want to market. JT Torres is number one in that weight class. Since he's the reigning adcc champ.

Yeah but he hasn’t competed since ADCC 2019 so it makes sense they took him out, especially considering Garry’s last match with him ended with JT being in a fully extended knee bar