Opinion Why doesnt the US have paid maternity leave?

[Iron Mang]

In Austria and France you essentially have to take a full month's pay every year and hand it over to the government. That's not their total taxation. Just the amount that they're taxed more than the average middle class US citizen. You think that's a fair trade off?

If you work 35 years, that's almost 3 years of labor that goes to the government instead of yourself.

Honestly, I would be fine with that if the government used the taxes towards actual social support, like health care, education (including college), and other services to make life better for the people, instead of using it for corporate welfare and the military industrial complex. I know there's the saying that a nation is only as strong as it's military, but I would say the nation is only as strong as it's people. Consider that if we focused more on improving the life of the citizens, by default our military would get stronger through retention of a healthier populace.

 

[RoastBeast]

Obviously this is silly because the totality of the increased tax revenue is not going to pay only for maternity and paternity leave. They have lots of other social benefits with that extra taxation like higher levels of public education and health care in those two countries in particular.

France has one of the best health care systems on Earth.

I didn't say that's what the totality of the increased tax revenue was going to pay for. Just making sure that you guys realize that your infatuation with some of these European countries means you'd be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars extra to the government.

If it means that you get babies that grow into better citizens down the road? I think that's a fair trade off.

The role of length of maternity leave in supporting mother–child interactions and attachment security among American mothers and their infants - International Journal of Child Care and Education Policy

Maternity leave policies are linked to early childhood education and care policies, and in many countries, the length of leave policies determines the need for early care programs. The length of maternity leave varies greatly among mothers in the U.S. because of the absence of a universal policy...

ijccep.springeropen.com

And insecure attachment is a precursor to a host of social issues. Issues that we, as society, will ultimately be paying for when those children grow into adults. So, either pay up front or pay on the back end.

But, personally, I support allowing women to have abortions. I think it solves the whole problem.

Studies like that have so many variables involved that are not accounted for. Common sense tells you that it's better for a child to have their mother there for them but I'm not just going to blindly believe the results of a random study that is obviously biased toward an outcome from the very first paragraph on. We have no idea what types of people these mother's are and whether they're good mom's or not. I don't understand why you guys continue to believe these random studies that don't account for dozens and dozens of variables which could change the results if accounted for.

I will say this, your post to Rational Poster about abortions was pretty embarrassing and that's coming from a pro choice up to the first trimester guy. Zero accountability for the fact that people actually have to have unprotected sex to get pregnant and then blaming pro life people on that poor choice is pretty ridiculous.

Then to come up with an analogy about how pro lifers insist that they eat at the most expensive restaurant when they can't afford it is even more ridiculous. The pro lifers are saying don't go eat at the restaurant if you can't afford it and if you do decide to sit down and eat, don't come asking me for money to pay for your meal. That's called personal responsibility.

 

[oldshadow]

You say sure, but then say a bunch of shit that makes it seem like you don't mean sure.

Can you just say you don't support maternity/paternity leave and move on?

@Rational Poster pointed out that companies that don't provide adequate benefits lose out on hiring talent. Additionally, there's a top line on how much they can raise prices before they lose customers. So, yes, we might pay an increase if companies offered paid maternity leave.

The better question is what does society gain from it. The research is pretty clear that it's extremely valuable for the well-being of newborns and can have lasting effects on their development. I would think that anyone who is anti-abortion because of the well-being of the child would support paid maternity leave because it literally only exists to benefit that child that people insist must be born.

I can't fathom people who are halfway on children's well-being. They insist on the child being born but they are against anything that is spent to make the child's early life healthier.

It's why I always argue that the anti-abortion crowd is really about punishing the unacceptable sexual behaviors of adults and not really about protecting children. There's no other logically consistent reason why they care so little about what happens after birth but so much about making sure the birth itself happens.

The best situation is a two parent family with one parent home full-time.

Should we be required to pay for that, after all think of thr children.

Parents should plan and work out how to take care of their kids, it's their responsibility. They should not expect others to pay for them.

 

[Rational Poster]

I didn't say that's what the totality of the increased tax revenue was going to pay for. Just making sure that you guys realize that your infatuation with some of these European countries means you'd be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars extra to the government.



Studies like that have so many variables involved that are not accounted for. Common sense tells you that it's better for a child to have their mother there for them but I'm not just going to blindly believe the results of a random study that is obviously biased toward an outcome from the very first paragraph on. We have no idea what types of people these mother's are and whether they're good mom's or not. I don't understand why you guys continue to believe these random studies that don't account for dozens and dozens of variables which could change the results if accounted for.

I will say this, your post to Rational Poster about abortions was pretty embarrassing and that's coming from a pro choice up to the first trimester guy. Zero accountability for the fact that people actually have to have unprotected sex to get pregnant and then blaming pro life people on that poor choice is pretty ridiculous.

Then to come up with an analogy about how pro lifers insist that they eat at the most expensive restaurant when they can't afford it is even more ridiculous. The pro lifers are saying don't go eat at the restaurant if you can't afford it and if you do decide to sit down and eat, don't come asking me for money to pay for your meal. That's called personal responsibility.

Sure you didn't say that specifically, but it was your implication based on the context of the conversation.

Like, no shit social services like maternity leave cost more money and the overwhelming majority of people support those increased costs.

In fact, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would support increased taxes for any of those things if they were actually delivered.

 

[RoastBeast]

Sure you didn't say that specifically, but it was your implication based on the context of the conversation.

Like, no shit social services like maternity leave cost more money and the overwhelming majority of people support those increased costs.

In fact, I'm sure the overwhelming majority would support increased taxes for any of those things if they were actually delivered.

My post before that was about Europe's benefits, not just for maternity but I can see why it seemed like that.

I don't think the overwhelming majority would support giving a full months paycheck per year to the government. For one, it's a fantasy to pretend that they would actually deliver. Two, the only way the majority of people would support it is if they were tricked into it or didn't have to pay their fair share into the system.

If the average working American was given a ballot and that ballot said "Vote yes for increased maternity leave, healthcare, social services etc, but by voting yes, you will have to give a full month's paycheck every year of your life to the government", people would absolutely think twice before voting yes.

People can't afford housing as it is. They definitely can't afford it with a month's pay erased.

 

[Rational Poster]

My post before that was about Europe's benefits, not just for maternity but I can see why it seemed like that.

I don't think the overwhelming majority would support giving a full months paycheck per year to the government. For one, it's a fantasy to pretend that they would actually deliver. Two, the only way the majority of people would support it is if they were tricked into it or didn't have to pay their fair share into the system.

If the average working American was given a ballot and that ballot said "Vote yes for increased maternity leave, healthcare, social services etc, but by voting yes, you will have to give a full month's paycheck every year of your life to the government", people would absolutely think twice before voting yes.

People can't afford housing as it is. They definitely can't afford it with a month's pay erased.

It's not a fantasy to pretend they can deliver. We can look at countries all over the world with far less resources that are able to deliver that level of service.

The months pay would also go to eliminating all their health care, child care, and education expenses at an exponential rate of return.

 

[RoastBeast]

It's not a fantasy to pretend they can deliver. We can look at countries all over the world with far less resources that are able to deliver that level of service.

The months pay would also go to eliminating all their health care, child care, and education expenses at an exponential rate of return.

The federal and state governments can't even deliver on simple solutions like building EV stations with billions of dollars granted to them. You think they're just all the sudden going to smarten up and deliver if you give them even more money? Remember, the government is apparently always just a few dollars short of making your life much better. There is no bigger waste of your dollars than giving them to the government to spend.

If it made monetary sense, I don't think people would have an issue with it. Who doesn't want to save money and get better care? Problem is that a ton of people will be able to get more out of the system than they put in, which means a ton of other people put way more into the system than they will ever get out. The system makes sense for the poor and people who don't work but it doesn't make sense for the majority of the middle class who would pay more in than they would receive.

 

[Spounman]

Probably because you'll get mentally ill men who pretend to be women, then pretend to be pregnant so they can have maternity leave.

 

[Rational Poster]

The federal and state governments can't even deliver on simple solutions like building EV stations with billions of dollars granted to them. You think they're just all the sudden going to smarten up and deliver if you give them even more money? Remember, the government is apparently always just a few dollars short of making your life much better. There is no bigger waste of your dollars than giving them to the government to spend.

If it made monetary sense, I don't think people would have an issue with it. Who doesn't want to save money and get better care? Problem is that a ton of people will be able to get more out of the system than they put in, which means a ton of other people put way more into the system than they will ever get out. The system makes sense for the poor and people who don't work but it doesn't make sense for the majority of the middle class who would pay more in than they would receive.

This is literally how modern economies work. lmao

Youth and elderly take more than they put in, everyone else puts in more than they take.

 

[RoastBeast]

This is literally how modern economies work. lmao

Youth and elderly take more than they put in, everyone else puts in more than they take.

Yeah and it's why the overwhelming majority, as you make it seem, are not okay with that type of system.

It's extremely dishonest to pretend that only the youth and elderly take more than they put in. You know damn well that isn't the case. If it was, then people really wouldn't put up a fuss about it because people don't mind chipping in to take care of people who deserve it.

 

[StonedLemur]

I suppose it was a bit insensitive of me, but point being many employers provide it. In fact, my company provides paternity as well.

But you're right in some ways, so we'll call it 60-40 sir

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

because other countries have to pay their people not to move to America.

 

[FIMN]

people don't mind chipping in to take care of people who deserve it.

Err yes they do.

It works in all other industrialised nations and when the idea if floated here, its rejected as "the government always wastes money" despite numerous programs but both popular and revenue neutral/positive.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

I would support government funded maternity leave for maybe like 2 months, but only if the money is pulled away from current welfare programs.

 

[Rational Poster]

Yeah and it's why the overwhelming majority, as you make it seem, are not okay with that type of system.

It's extremely dishonest to pretend that only the youth and elderly take more than they put in. You know damn well that isn't the case. If it was, then people really wouldn't put up a fuss about it because people don't mind chipping in to take care of people who deserve it.

It's actually intentionally dishonest right wing propaganda to assume it's anything but the case.


The demographic breakdown of tax revenue is no secret.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

The demographic breakdown of tax revenue is no secret.

neither are the tens of thousands of "disabled" people on the dole.

 

[nostradumbass]

My professional experience has seen me deal with people of extreme low cognitive functioning with no real skills that could be monetised effectively. No dying day to day or being taken advantage of by assholes is great.

No, not Sherdog before you ask (lulz).

Those people, through no fault of their own, aren't going to put money into the system. That's just the way it is. They don't deserve to live shit lives, or die, or be abandoned because someone thinks socialism or whatever is bad.

Safety nets for all; some will need them more than others, while again others might never need them at all. But they would be there, period, including paid leave for maternity/paternity and other such benefits or living in a civil country. The unseen, often unconsidered consequences for the state soon add up if you abandon these people or people in general in their hour of need (including, of course, babies and children).

Rampant capitalism often defeats itself through ignorance.

Believe me.

Do you really think "people of extreme low cognitive functioning" are the people who should be incentivized to have more children? They already have more kids, and do it younger than more functional people, and they have them outside of marriage. Certainly for the men, they could knock up a few different women in a pretty short span and just get paid to not work for several years.

It's one thing to offer time off and just pay someone else to do that work in their absence, but you're asking to pay them to not work, for people who probably shouldn't be encouraged to have more kids than they already do, in jobs where retention isn't at all important. Why punish their employer for hiring them by involving them in their having kids at all? If you want to pay them to have kids, keep it entirely separate from work, and the employer can decide to rehire them after if they want.

 

[djacobox372]

Paid maternity leave and anti-discrimination laws related to maternity are a necessary element to ensuring equal opportunity for women in the workplace.

 

[Rational Poster]

neither are the tens of thousands of "disabled" people on the dole.

Even if it were a million of fraudulent welfare recipients (they're not), it would still mean literally hundreds of millions of people are receiving a level of education and healthcare service that should be standard in all modern developed economies.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

Paid maternity leave and anti-discrimination laws related to maternity are a necessary element to ensuring equal opportunity for women in the workplace.

stop simping.