Wing Chun kicks should be banned in MMA

[shincheckin]

IMO the knee stomp is a easy kick to throw/spam. It is a difficult kick to read/see coming and react to. And a difficult kick to block/evade/counter. And easy to fake to easily land other shots. I think this is one of those theory vs reality/practicality scenarios. I think its a self defense move not a sport move. Advocating the blocks etc. Is comparable to saying slipping punches is easy. Just duck. This thing has been debated here before and is a hot topic in the martial arts community and a road i dont want to go down. This is simply my stance on the subject.

For what its worth i have used the kick in a self defense situation before. But i was on my back while the guy was trying to soccer kick me. I was able to basically teep his supporting legs knee while trying to kick me. It worked and he was immediatley limping

 

[TheMaster]

IMO the knee stomp is a easy kick to throw/spam. It is a difficult kick to read/see coming and react to. And a difficult kick to block/evade/counter. And easy to fake to easily land other shots. I think this is one of those theory vs reality/practicality scenarios. I think its a self defense move not a sport move. Advocating the blocks etc. Is comparable to saying slipping punches is easy. Just duck. This thing has been debated here before and is a hot topic in the martial arts community and a road i dont want to go down. This is simply my stance on the subject.

For what its worth i have used the kick in a self defense situation before. But i was on my back while the guy was trying to soccer kick me. I was able to basically teep his supporting legs knee while trying to kick me. It worked and he was immediatley limping

A sensible and honest evaluation on the subject from a former fighter, amidst a sea of idiocy on the subject on this supposed 'standup forum' lol.

Nice that you used it as an upkick on the ground, another underrated application.

It's in my toolbag as a self defence move only, and I am perfecting it. I wouldn't feel good about winning with it though even if I did compete. It feels almost like cheating and it's brutal.

That said, the next time I'm getting into an argument with an agressive and mouthy boxer who's saying WC is garbage and wants to go, I'm taking no prisoners with the kick, and no apologies about leaving him rolling on the floor with it either.

 

[shincheckin]

A sensible and honest evaluation on the subject from a former fighter, amidst a sea of idiocy on the subject on this supposed 'standup forum' lol.

Nice that you used it as an upkick on the ground, another underrated application.

It's in my toolbag as a self defence move only, and I am perfecting it. I wouldn't feel good about winning with it though even if I did compete. It feels almost like cheating and it's brutal.

That said, the next time I'm getting into an argument with an agressive and mouthy boxer who's saying WC is garbage and wants to go, I'm taking no prisoners with the kick, and no apologies about leaving him rolling on the floor with it either.

I was just thinking about when i used the kick. It was about 20 years ago or so. I knew nothing of the knee stomp kick and neither did the rest of the world at the time. I had never been taught it never trained or practiced it. It was the only thing i could think of and do at the time.

I was like 18 maybe about 125 lbs at the time and got beat up by a much larger stronger cholo in his late twenties. He had several friends with him. I was alone. They didnt jump in. He attacked. I got dropped. While on the ground, he was trying to get to the side of me to soccer kick me to my body/rib area.
So i kept spinning on my back to have my feet facing him trying to kick him off of me and prevent him from getting to the side of me. After a few kicks i thought to kick his knee. Missed a few times but finally landed clean but it was toward the end of my extension. So i didnt bend his knee backwards as much as possible with the kick. But it was enough to stop the action. Him and his friends ran back to the car and drove off but he was limping.
Im assuming his friends didnt jump in because he was so much bigger then me they thought it was funny to watch him beat me up. They ran back to the car to get out of there before the cops came. This happened in a grocery store parking lot. I was walking to the grocery store and was at the wrong place at the wrong time while some cholos were driving around looking for a victim.
The whole thing started with a sucker punch. I was literally at about the guys chest height difference wise. After the sucker punch i fought back and got dropped. I could have gotten it much worse if his friends did jump in. But it was a quick fuck him up and take off kinda thing. This was the 2nd worst beating in my life. And that is my cool story bro.

 

[listrahtes]

I'm amazed that people like you who are not fighters and never have been fighters, can be so loudmouthed about their opinion

Do you at least realize the irony ? That is one of your funniest unintentional jokes. <Lmaoo>

 

[DoctorTaco]

Do you at least realize the irony ? That is one of your funniest unintentional jokes. <Lmaoo>

I assure you he does not

 

[TheMaster]

Do you at least realize the irony ? That is one of your funniest unintentional jokes.

Judo is a combat sport which I competed in.
Do you tell freestyle wrestlers they never fought, or do you suddenly go quiet like a 'lil bitch and put on your tutu?



Also I was arguing for taking the kick out due to realizing it's danger. I'm not sitting on sidelines saying they should keep it in.

 

[thugpoet]

Yes they are dangerous.
Which is why heel hooks are banned in most grappling tourneys (including a recent Catch one that Josh was promoting) and leg locks are banned in Judo outright and only advanced belts train them in BJJ.
In MMA Sonnen was making a case heelhooks should be banned also. My view is the knee stomp is easier to hit in MMA by more fighters though than a heel hook since it's available from standing not a specialist ground position so probability is factor.
More dangerous? It depends, torque vs high impact with body weight resting on the knee.

Fighting is a dangerous sport. I'd rather risk a knee injury than a life altering concussion. The logic of this move should be banned is goofy.

 

[TheMaster]

Fighting is a dangerous sport. I'd rather risk a knee injury than a life altering concussion. The logic of this move should be banned is goofy.

Is it though?
Judo banned leg locks 80 years ago due to high risk of injury but allowed strangles as even though a strangle is potentially lethal the vast majority of the time it will not cause lasting damage if done correctly.
Of course we have emerging awareness of the risk of strokes now from repeated chokes mainly from BBJ since they basically got rid of standing grappling and focus even more on submissions. But it's a similar decision.

So if we compare the knee stomp with a punch the metric is:
high risk of severe non-lethal but career damaging injury vs low general risk of injury but small chance of lethal injury.

 

[thugpoet]

Is it though?
Judo banned leg locks 80 years ago due to high risk of injury but allowed strangles as even though a strangle is potentially lethal the vast majority of the time it will not cause lasting damage if done correctly.
Of course we have emerging awareness of the risk of strokes now from repeated chokes mainly from BBJ since they basically got rid of standing grappling and focus even more on submissions. But it's a similar decision.

So if we compare the knee stomp with a punch the metric is:
high risk of severe non-lethal but career damaging injury vs low general risk of injury but small chance of lethal injury.

Id rather risk getting a bum knee vs having cte.

Granted it's fighting so both are possible but that's my preference. I've had acl tears , meniscus tear in my right knee, a torn pec and a partially torn quad but no concussions. If you asked me 100 x 100 I'd say I'll take the physical damage.

In terms of technical applications the kick can work and it can not work.

 

[JohnPJones]

Id rather risk getting a bum knee vs having cte.

Granted it's fighting so both are possible but that's my preference. I've had acl tears , meniscus tear in my right knee, a torn pec and a partially torn quad but no concussions. If you asked me 100 x 100 I'd say I'll take the physical damage.

In terms of technical applications the kick can work and it can not work.

Right?
Like would your rather be functionally retarded when you’re 50 or 60, or would you rather have a slight limp, he’ll even a pronounced limp?

 

[TheMaster]

Right?
Like would your rather be functionally retarded when you’re 50 or 60, or would you rather have a slight limp, he’ll even a pronounced limp?

You should edit your post in case you get carded.

Also, taking punches doesn't have to lead to long term issues as likely as having knee damage is.
It's about probabilities.

Also ask @Woldog if he would describe his knee issues as 'a slight limp'.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Id rather risk getting a bum knee vs having cte.

Granted it's fighting so both are possible but that's my preference. I've had acl tears , meniscus tear in my right knee, a torn pec and a partially torn quad but no concussions. If you asked me 100 x 100 I'd say I'll take the physical damage.

In terms of technical applications the kick can work and it can not work.

Right?
Like would your rather be functionally retarded when you’re 50 or 60, or would you rather have a slight limp, he’ll even a pronounced limp?

a large number of pro athletes out there, (fight game included) have had knee surgeries. But once your chin is cracked and that TBI starts stacking up, it’s game over.

 

[Stuart0502]

It happens again.

Didn’t see this posted;

 

[JohnPJones]

It happens again.

Didn’t see this posted;

the cut the clip real short. It looks bad, but it also looks like he bounced right back up after it.

that was fucking beautifully well done though

 

[JohnPJones]

Not the full fight but shows a much longer clip. Dude definitely pops back up immediately after the kick, so I looked pretty bad I gotta admit, but apparently didn’t have much effect.

 

[TheMaster]

Not the full fight but shows a much longer clip. Dude definitely pops back up immediately after the kick, so I looked pretty bad I gotta admit, but apparently didn’t have much effect.

It was just distance. Had he been closer with more follow through it would be over...
But yeah it shows there is some range where the kick won't cause immediate severe damage. Jones threw the kick from far range and people didn't like it but he wasn't finishing with it.

 

[JohnPJones]

It was just distance. Had he been closer with more follow through it would be over...
But yeah it shows there is some range where the kick won't cause immediate severe damage. Jones threw the kick from far range and people didn't like it but he wasn't finishing with it.

so you claim literally without any evidence lmao.

Trying to find this clip he threw tons of kicks to the knee , and none of them really did anything…

just accept that this technique is not the devastating technique people like you make it out to be.
It almost never ends fights, and so far has never ended a career.

 

[TheMaster]

so you claim literally without any evidence lmao.

Trying to find this clip he threw tons of kicks to the knee , and none of them really did anything…

just accept that this technique is not the devastating technique people like you make it out to be.
It almost never ends fights, and so far has never ended a career.

It's led to surgery several times already and most experienced fighters want it banned, it is literally banned in most kickboxing/MT orgs and even the OneFC official account was immediately saying they don't want it in...

I saw it land once and his knee gave, the guy was lucky in that fight.

 

[JohnPJones]

It's led to surgery several times already and most experienced fighters want it banned, it is literally banned in most kickboxing/MT orgs and even the OneFC official account was immediately saying they don't want it in...

I saw it land once and his knee gave, the guy was lucky in that fight.

surgery, yet fighters return to the ring/octagon, it’s not a career ender by any metric.

You say most with no evidence to support that claim. Some fighters want it banned.

being against the rules in some rulesets doesn’t mean it’s dangerous that doesn’t prove your point.
again opinions.

you’ve never once provided any evidence of how ‘dangerous’ the kick is.

Edit
Also did you not watch the video I posted? He lands it like 10 times just in that highlight reel…so 1/10th of the landed knee kicks had any real real effect…most of them did almost nothing and the few others that did ‘something’ simply stopped his opponent’s forward momentum.

 

[TheMaster]

surgery, yet fighters return to the ring/octagon, it’s not a career ender by any metric.

If you need surgery from it on such a vital area for athletic performance I'm quite sure it comes under the 'career ender or nearly' category.

You say most with no evidence to support that claim. Some fighters want it banned.

Chael said most experienced fighters he spoke to think it should be banned.
He said those that didn't were younger and just speaking from the 'defend yourself at all times' mindset not logic.
I'll take his word on this over an internet nerd.

being against the rules in some rulesets doesn’t mean it’s dangerous that doesn’t prove your point.

you’ve never once provided any evidence of how ‘dangerous’ the kick is.

Doctors quoted saying it could end careers and the damage caused.
Plenty of evidence.