You should get the point deduction AND your position

Th3Sav4ge said:
i agree thats fucking stupid. easy way to exploit the rules if u are ahead in the fight or against a dominant grappler period
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If refs just take a point every time there is a fence grab that looks like it effected the position, then they would stop grabbing.

Losing the point basically ensures at best a tied round and usually costs the fighter the round.
 
Banana Tree's Nemesis said:
I don't follow your argument. What odds? This was a hypothetical scenario. The previous rounds could've been scored whatever.
The point was that you would be able to escape a definitive finish, which is the worst case scenario, and trade it in for a point deduction without even having to go back into the position.
So if a fighter finds himself in that situation, there is one outcome that is deterministically favorable to the other, which would mean the fighter would have to at least try to commit a foul, if he acted stricly logic based.
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Grabbing the fence to stop even a "likely" takedown is a far cry from avoiding a definitive finish.

The trade off argument isn't "lose by submission" or "deduct 1 point from 1 round"

Can you provide an example where a fence grab stopped a definitive submission finish?
 
Leon could very well lost those two early rounds for not the fence grabs tho. Fence grab should be a automatic point deduction. There no warning needed. There no accidentally grab the fence. Like u could say way nutshots and rye pokes.
 
Banana Tree's Nemesis said:
That's a bit troubling though isn't it?
Let's say you're in a 3 rounder and expect to have won round 1 and 2. Now you find yourself in an arm triangle in round 3 and you eye gouge your way out of it. Sacrifice the point and survive for a couple more minutes and you're the happy eye gouging winner of that fight.
Or would that translate to an immediate DQ?
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See the Davey Grant vs Assuncao fight just last week. Assuncao up 2-0 but tiring. A late fence grab prevented Assuncao from getting the takedown and likely ending the third round in top position,Grant loses a point but ended up finishing a gassed Assuncao after the reset on the feet.
 
Point deductions really screw things up when you only win 1 point per round out of 3 or 5. I think it would be cool if as soon as the ref spots a fence grab, he breaks up the fight, and puts the fighter who did the foul on his back in the center of the octagon.
 
I thought that too. The point should be a punishment for cheating, AND you should still resume the fight in the same position, because then it's the other fighter basically being penalised for his opponents cheating, when he has his position taken away
 
FreedomCricket said:
Grabbing the fence to stop even a "likely" takedown is a far cry from avoiding a definitive finish.

The trade off argument isn't "lose by submission" or "deduct 1 point from 1 round"

Can you provide an example where a fence grab stopped a definitive submission finish?
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No?!
If you quote me on something where I quoted something you need to go back to the root of that quote, or the whole thing will be one big misunderstanding.
 
Banana Tree's Nemesis said:
I don't follow your argument. What odds? This was a hypothetical scenario. The previous rounds could've been scored whatever.
The point was that you would be able to escape a definitive finish, which is the worst case scenario, and trade it in for a point deduction without even having to go back into the position.
So if a fighter finds himself in that situation, there is one outcome that is deterministically favorable to the other, which would mean the fighter would have to at least try to commit a foul, if he acted stricly logic based.
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What odds? Think for a second. You lost the first 2 rounds and are about to choke a guy out when you get eye gouged. So you are likely winning the round and will get a 10-8. It's not complicated.
 
EYEKICKFACES said:
What odds? Think for a second. You lost the first 2 rounds and are about to choke a guy out when you get eye gouged. So you are likely winning the round and will get a 10-8. It's not complicated.
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Ok I think for a second now. Before I have not. Never actually.
Now I get 10-8 and lose fight 26-28.
Cool beans.
Doesn't have anything to do with the thread at this point but cool beans.
 
Banana Tree's Nemesis said:
Ok I think for a second now. Before I have not. Never actually.
Now I get 10-8 and lose fight 26-28.
Cool beans.
Doesn't have anything to do with the thread at this point but cool beans.
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It would be a 28-28 draw......you sure you were thinking?
 
No, it's either/or. The point deduction is even more valuable in Usman's case considering he has gotten Leon down several times in their 3 fights and couldn't do anything with it, and doesn't have much of a submission game or great GNP. The point deduction gave him a 10-8 round that he wasn't able to get himself in 13 rounds with Edwards.

If the fence grab and point deduction had never happened and Usman just got the TD, the cards would have been 49-46 twice and a 48-47. The fence grab and point deduction was much better for Usman than Leon not grabbing the fence in the first place.
 
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the fighter should get to choose if he wants the position or the point deduction or a handjob from the ref
 
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