Social Surge in girls switching gender in England 4000 % increase overall

[bobgeese]

No I find it disgusting children pracing around in skimpy clothes being sexualised by adults. Whether that be a dragqueen kid or a kids beauty pageant.

You're imaging all sorts of stuff that has nothing to do with my opinion.

And you don’t find children being fed hormone blockers disgusting?

 

[NoDak]

That sounds about right - though, given different home environments, I think we'll see more 9 to 10 year olds coming out. Also, given the current climate, we'll probably see some false positives due to hormonal confusion - whereas previously I think we saw a lot of false positives who thought they were straight since they weren't even presented anything else as a real option.

It's one of those things... Growing up on a farm, you just realize some animals are gay, full stop. One day you look out the window and big nuts the ram is at it with that other ram again while the ewes sat there grazing happily. It figures that humans might be the same way if you didn't put tremendous social pressure to not be that way, attempting to software overwrite hard wiring.

That's a good and balanced approach. I find the practice troubling as all holy hell, but the problem with a complete ban is that then the people banning it are the ones telling gay people what they want. That's the problem we're trying to get away from. With all of the self destructive stuff we let people do to themselves now, really, what's the big deal about letting someone who actually wants it go through conversion therapy?

Hahah, I actually did grow up on a farm until we moved out of state just before I started high school. I haven't lived in North Dakota on a full time basis since then, and between the two I'd probs rather be in ancestral Norway. Never read this book (apparently published circa 1996), but was quite amused to see it.

 

[Renard]

Just to be clear, reading through, it seems the legal limit to start puberty blockers is Tanner stage 2, so from about 9-11 years old. Although it's reversible, there's a debate about what the lower limit should be. No 4 year old is getting treatment.

Boys on puberty blockers end up with a micro-penis. Their genitals never develop in the first place. That shit is permanent. They can't even create a fake vagina if they wanted to; there's no adult penis to inverse!

 

[Sano]

And you don’t find children being fed hormone blockers disgusting?

I don't know what to think exactly. As I said earlier, I would have to do a lot more research to give an informed opinion. I don't think anyone should be "fed" hormone blockers without any due process, least of all children. But then again I don't agree with your framing of the question.

Reading through the guidelines of JCEM (Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism) it states the following:

"Hormone treatment is not recommended for prepubertal gender-dysphoric/gender-incongruent persons. Those clinicians who recommend gender-affirming endocrine treatments—appropriately trained diagnosing clinicians (required), a mental health provider for adolescents (required) and mental health professional for adults (recommended)—should be knowledgeable about the diagnostic criteria and criteria for gender-affirming treatment, have sufficient training and experience in assessing psychopathology, and be willing to participate in the ongoing care throughout the endocrine transition. We recommend treating gender-dysphoric/gender-incongruent adolescents who have entered puberty at Tanner Stage G2/B2 by suppression with gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists. Clinicians may add gender-affirming hormones after a multidisciplinary team has confirmed the persistence of gender dysphoria/gender incongruence and sufficient mental capacity to give informed consent to this partially irreversible treatment. Most adolescents have this capacity by age 16 years old. We recognize that there may be compelling reasons to initiate sex hormone treatment prior to age 16 years, although there is minimal published experience treating prior to 13.5 to 14 years of age."
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558

I think that's a somewhat reasonable way to go about if, IF it should be done in the first place. A multidisciplinary team of endocrinologists, psychologists and other medical staff making an informed decision with proper diagnosis (mandatory), and with the consent of the family and individual. At 14 to 16 years old as the lower limit.

Even with that, I don't know exactly where I stand on the issue.

 

[Not A Theist]

Hahah, I actually did grow up on a farm until we moved out of state just before I started high school. I haven't lived in North Dakota on a full time basis since then, and between the two I'd probs rather be in ancestral Norway. Never read this book (apparently published circa 1996), but was quite amused to see it.

I will say, going through highschool as a farm boy, there weren't many gay jokes but the sheep-fucking jokes never stopped... The reality is though that there is something to that Brokeback Mountain presentation. There is a lot of intimate male bonding which takes place in farm environments and sometimes that intimacy is going to cross a border into the physical. There's a reason so many hyper-male groups have, historically, been gay, and it stems from a valorization of malenesss that mind find isn't at odds with their sex drive. A big portion of the warrior castes in history looked at sex with woman as for reprocreation, and sex with men as good clean fun. You get the mentor/pupil relationship in Ancient Greece where sexuality between the mentor/pupil was looked at as a positive for the training of a young citizen. Don't know what was going on in the Middle East that they got so pissy about it in their religious texts. Lots of sand, I guess - makes a person cranky.

Norway is a hell a nice place to live. I had the opportunity to visit Norwegian friends for their constitution day in the early 2000's... The preserves, both fruit and fish, were through the roof, the people friendly, the liquor was good, and it reminded me a lot of the BC mountains I grew up in. Bergen was a nice place, in particular. I also hear the winters there are surprisingly mild for how far north it is. Very cold, but not the freezerbox I get every year in central Canada.

You're an educated guy with a good skill set (all that high-tech North Dakota stuff) if I'm not mistaken - any chance of you emigrating to the fatherland?

 

[bobgeese]

I don't know what to think exactly. As I said earlier, I would have to do a lot more research to give an informed opinion. I don't think anyone should be "fed" hormone blockers without any due process, least of all children. But then again I don't agree with your framing of the question.

Reading through the guidelines of JCEM (Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism) it states the following:

"Hormone treatment is not recommended for prepubertal gender-dysphoric/gender-incongruent persons. Those clinicians who recommend gender-affirming endocrine treatments—appropriately trained diagnosing clinicians (required), a mental health provider for adolescents (required) and mental health professional for adults (recommended)—should be knowledgeable about the diagnostic criteria and criteria for gender-affirming treatment, have sufficient training and experience in assessing psychopathology, and be willing to participate in the ongoing care throughout the endocrine transition. We recommend treating gender-dysphoric/gender-incongruent adolescents who have entered puberty at Tanner Stage G2/B2 by suppression with gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists. Clinicians may add gender-affirming hormones after a multidisciplinary team has confirmed the persistence of gender dysphoria/gender incongruence and sufficient mental capacity to give informed consent to this partially irreversible treatment. Most adolescents have this capacity by age 16 years old. We recognize that there may be compelling reasons to initiate sex hormone treatment prior to age 16 years, although there is minimal published experience treating prior to 13.5 to 14 years of age."
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/11/3869/4157558

I think that's a somewhat reasonable way to go about if, IF it should be done in the first place. A multidisciplinary team of endocrinologists, psychologists and other medical staff has making an informed decision with proper diagnosis, and with the consent of the family and individual. At 14 to 16 years old as the lower limit.

Even with that, I don't know exactly where I stand on the issue.

At 16, it’s an entirely different conversation.

 

[Sano]

At 16, it’s an entirely different conversation.

What about 14? I find that a bit harder, and going lower even harder. Maybe there's an argument to be made in certain select cases, and there are probably some kids out there who would know they were trans and benefit from it the rest of their lives. But the danger is regretting the decision later. I mean, that could happen to an adult as well, but there needs to be some cognitive capacity to give informed consent and decision making. As the guidelines states. A childs mind is not just fully developed to give that up untill a certain age, with individual variation of course. That's the same reason we have sexual consent laws.

 

[TheComebackKid]

You should be stoning trans and gay people to death according to the Bible. Have you done this?

No i shouldn't, actually.

 

[NoDak]

That's the same reason we have sexual consent laws.

It's 15/16 in Northern Euro countries, feels a little low.

 

[hillelslovak87]

No i shouldn't, actually.

Somebody needs to read their bible, then. Little kids get ripped apart by bears for laughing at an old man, and you don't think they'd murder people for same sex attraction?

This is why nobody but the fools you meet under the harmful moonlight takes you seriously.

 

[NoDak]

I will say, going through highschool as a farm boy, there weren't many gay jokes but the sheep-fucking jokes never stopped... The reality is though that there is something to that Brokeback Mountain presentation. There is a lot of intimate male bonding which takes place in farm environments and sometimes that intimacy is going to cross a border into the physical. There's a reason so many hyper-male groups have, historically, been gay, and it stems from a valorization of malenesss that mind find isn't at odds with their sex drive. A big portion of the warrior castes in history looked at sex with woman as for reprocreation, and sex with men as good clean fun. You get the mentor/pupil relationship in Ancient Greece where sexuality between the mentor/pupil was looked at as a positive for the training of a young citizen. Don't know what was going on in the Middle East that they got so pissy about it in their religious texts. Lots of sand, I guess - makes a person cranky.

Norway is a hell a nice place to live. I had the opportunity to visit Norwegian friends for their constitution day in the early 2000's... The preserves, both fruit and fish, were through the roof, the people friendly, the liquor was good, and it reminded me a lot of the BC mountains I grew up in. Bergen was a nice place, in particular. I also hear the winters there are surprisingly mild for how far north it is. Very cold, but not the freezerbox I get every year in central Canada.

You're an educated guy with a good skill set (all that high-tech North Dakota stuff) if I'm not mistaken - any chance of you emigrating to the fatherland?

Stupefying conversation. Which forum is this?

 

[Not A Theist]

Stupefying conversation. Which forum is this?

Oh come now, let's be honest... If we were to just complain about immigrants a bit a conversation about Norway, fucking sheep, and gayness through history would be entirely par for the course in this forum

 

[MilesAbove]

Pretty sure if you just look at the source, you can rest assured this is not to be taken seriously.

 

[zebby23]

No i shouldn't, actually.

The Bible says to do that

 

[MayhemMonkey]

lmao

they banned knives though how can they perform surgeries?

who performs surgeries with knives?

 

[IDL]

I suspect in a few years there will be a surge of going back

 

[Bamboozled]

who performs surgeries with knives?

Scalpel's are a type of knife

 

[bobgeese]

What about 14? I find that a bit harder, and going lower even harder. Maybe there's an argument to be made in certain select cases, and there are probably some kids out there who would know they were trans and benefit from it the rest of their lives. But the danger is regretting the decision later. I mean, that could happen to an adult as well, but there needs to be some cognitive capacity to give informed consent and decision making. As the guidelines states. A childs mind is not just fully developed to give that up untill a certain age, with individual variation of course. That's the same reason we have sexual consent laws.

14? I have to say no.


To your point, it should probably fall in line with the age of consent.

 

[S Class]

trans-trenders

 

[MayhemMonkey]

Scalpel's are a type of knife