Social Surge in girls switching gender in England 4000 % increase overall

[bobgeese]

There's a few things to consider.

It could be that more young people are influenced, or it could be that some are more willing to seek out hormone therapy because of the way society views the issue. It could be pieces of both. The problem is that the numbers doesn't tell us anything about how many girls self-identity as another gender vs how many did in 97. It only tells us about how many go through hormone treatment, which is somewhat tied to legislation.

Either way it's a stark increase that needs to be looked into, especially to gauge how it reflects on the number of transpeople in reality and why these girls want to transition.

Seems like the Transgender rep mention in the article wants to get to the bottom of it as well:

"Stephanie Davies-Arai, of Transgender Trend, a group that questions the rise in the number of children identifying as transgender, said: “We need an inquiry into why there has been such an unprecedented increase in the number of teenage girls who are unhappy at being girls, and it should be understood within a context of adolescent girls’ mental health. In 2019 we are still waiting for news of Penny Mordaunt’s promised inquiry.”


You sound really educated on the subject! Not like an ignoramus projecting his stupidity at all. It's exactly the same thing, what a riveting story.

Did you read what YOU posted?


Even a tranny group doesn’t buy the results. “Adolescent girls MENTAL HEALTH”.




It’s exactly what I stated. Ugly unpopular girls seeking acceptance, gravitating to the group that will gain them the most sympathy.

But please, continue giving them the attention they desire, what could go wrong...


Oh that’s right, the suicide rate of trannies...

 

[Prutfis]

It’s almost as if the unattractive girls do this so someone will pay attention to them

Damn that's like 95% of UK women

 

[Seano]

You sound really educated on the subject! Not like an ignoramus projecting his stupidity at all. It's exactly the same thing, what a riveting story.

I won't claim to know how or why but the rise if transgender people is obviously trend driven. Oddballs trying to find a place to fit. Apologies if that offends anyone, but personally I find it to be pretty sad.

 

[bobgeese]

Damn that's like 95% of UK women

LOL....


But seriously, it’s relative. They’re just girls desperately seeking attention.

 

[bobgeese]

I won't claim to know how or why but the rise if transgender people is obviously trend driven. Oddballs trying to find a place to fit. Apologies if that offends anyone, but personally I find it to be pretty sad.

Imagine not being able to realize that.



Some people are fucking morons...

 

[Sano]

Did you read what YOU posted?


Even a tranny group doesn’t buy the results. “Adolescent girls MENTAL HEALTH”.




It’s exactly what I stated. Ugly unpopular girls seeking acceptance, gravitating to the group that will gain them the most sympathy.

But please, continue giving them the attention they desire, what could go wrong...


Oh that’s right, the suicide rate of trannies...

Mental health is always a component, that doesn't exclude the effect of legislation, as well as societal norms, and the considerations about how those impacts the numbers. It's the same with how improved and early screenings in various forms of cancer raises the incidence rate. It's something to take into account.

Sticking with the mental health aspect, trying to shoehorn the complexity of transgender identity into "ugly highschool girls wanting attention" is not only taken out of thin air with no empirical data, it gives away something about your ability to examine a complex issue. It's seems like an attempt to handwave it by being absurdly reductionist, because you either don't have the capability to understand the nature of it, or you don't want to. Both are fine, but that doesn't make your statement true.

1) We're talking about girls being referred from ages 4-18
2) You have no way of judging their attractiveness or their sexual preferences (sounds silly even writing this)
3) Your entire basis for understanding transidentity is based on an anecdote about ugly pretend lesbians from your school

I won't claim to know how or why but the rise if transgender people is obviously trend driven. Oddballs trying to find a place to fit. Apologies if that offends anyone, but personally I find it to be pretty sad.

No doubt that some people will be influenced by a trend. Probably a very small minority to the point that they want to change their entire gender identity. If they don't have gender disphoria, and pursue this trend, they might have some serious mental health problems which would meant treatment either way. There's some mental co-morbidity at play here.

Oddballs trying to find a place is not really a logical argument. You're saying that they are oddballs and because of that they choose to want to be another gender, but if they start out not identifying as the gender they were born with and want to change that, they are also oddballs. See how circular it is? This way there's no way they could legitimately be transgendered.

 

[NoDak]

1) We're talking about girls being referred from ages 4-18

It would seem the most obvious way to stave off immediate, irrevocable disaster would be to ban these radical suggestions of puberty blockers, cross-gender hormone therapy and life altering cosmetic surgeries - Jesus Christ, and people get mad at me for saying this shit is radically different from a non-hetero sexual orientation - for minors.

 

[K-Bag]

You should be stoning trans and gay people to death according to the Bible. Have you done this?

You can kill people with weed?

 

[NoDak]

Would you prefer "the phenomenon of coming out as trans has similarities to the phenomenon of coming out as gay in a social environment that is extremely hostile to it"?

In that sense, sure. I was more referring to the fact that 'cis' LGB people don't need preferred pronouns, crossdressing, puberty blockers, hormone therapy or their cocks chopped off and vaginas mangled with radical surgeries. The "conversion therapy" on that front has a whole different meaning and purpose. Such as:



Burnet County officials raided the 10-acre property near Bertram in July 2018, where they removed eight boys between 10 and 17 years old as part of an investigation into possible abuse, neglect, labor violations, fraud, licensing violations and human trafficking.

The couple’s now-closed Blessed Hope Boys Academy in Robertsdale, Alabama, had been the subject of an ABC “20/20” investigation two years ago that found “Brother Gary” Wiggins used corporal punishment, solitary confinement, forced exercise, withholding food and other tactics to “convert” boys to heterosexuality, reported the Advocate.

“I’m going to get the demon out of you and make you straight,” Gary Wiggins told the boys, according to one boy sent to the camp by his mother.

 

[Not A Theist]

In that sense, sure. I was more referring to the fact that 'cis' LGB people don't need preferred pronouns, crossdressing, puberty blockers, hormone therapy or their cocks chopped off and vaginas mangled with radical surgeries. The "conversion therapy" on that front has a whole different meaning and purpose. Such as:



Burnet County officials raided the 10-acre property near Bertram in July 2018, where they removed eight boys between 10 and 17 years old as part of an investigation into possible abuse, neglect, labor violations, fraud, licensing violations and human trafficking.

The couple’s now-closed Blessed Hope Boys Academy in Robertsdale, Alabama, had been the subject of an ABC “20/20” investigation two years ago that found “Brother Gary” Wiggins used corporal punishment, solitary confinement, forced exercise, withholding food and other tactics to “convert” boys to heterosexuality, reported the Advocate.

“I’m going to get the demon out of you and make you straight,” Gary Wiggins told the boys, according to one boy sent to the camp by his mother.

Yep. As you mentioned it I thought about it and realized that it was a tremendously reductionist statement. Being gay is (I would imagine) very, very, very different than being trans both in origin and practice. In how one comes out though, and how society comes to term with it, there is a similarity, which is what I was pointing at.

And hah, yep. "Conversion therapy" does have quite a different ring to it for trans people and gay people...

 

[NoDak]

Yep. As you mentioned it I thought about it and realized that it was a tremendously reductionist statement. Being gay is (I would imagine) very, very, very different than being trans both in origin and practice. In how one comes out though, and how society comes to term with it, there is a similarity, which is what I was pointing at.

And hah, yep. "Conversion therapy" does have quite a different ring to it for trans people and gay people...

In January of last year, the UCLA School of Law estimated that some 700,000 people (aged 18-59) in the US have received or gone through "gay conversion therapy", including 350,000 as adolescents.

 

[Not A Theist]

In January of last year, the UCLA School of Law estimated that some 700,000 people (aged 18-59) in the US have received or gone through "gay conversion therapy", including 350,000 as adolescents.

That year? If it's all time that's actually lower than I would have expected.

Curious, how do you feel about a legislative ban on the practice entirely? I have heard cases where some people voluntarily - granted, it's probably a result of social pressure and coercion by those close to them, but it's still strictly speaking voluntary - put themselves through it. I like people to do what they want but it seems like something worth considering banning outright to me.

 

[bobgeese]

Mental health is always a component, that doesn't exclude the effect of legislation, as well as societal norms, and the considerations about how those impacts the numbers. It's the same with how improved and early screenings in various forms of cancer raises the incidence rate. It's something to take into account.

Sticking with the mental health aspect, trying to shoehorn the complexity of transgender identity into "ugly highschool girls wanting attention" is not only taken out of thin air with no empirical data, it gives away something about your ability to examine a complex issue. It's seems like an attempt to handwave it by being absurdly reductionist, because you either don't have the capability to understand the nature of it, or you don't want to. Both are fine, but that doesn't make your statement true.

1) We're talking about girls being referred from ages 4-18
2) You have no way of judging their attractiveness or their sexual preferences (sounds silly even writing this)
3) Your entire basis for understanding transidentity is based on an anecdote about ugly pretend lesbians from your school


No doubt that some people will be influenced by a trend. Probably a very small minority to the point that they want to change their entire gender identity. If they don't have gender disphoria, and pursue this trend, they might have some serious mental health problems which would meant treatment either way. There's some mental co-morbidity at play here.

Oddballs trying to find a place is not really a logical argument. You're saying that they are oddballs and because of that they choose to want to be another gender, but if they start out not identifying as the gender they were born with and want to change that, they are also oddballs. See how circular it is? This way there's no way they could legitimately be transgendered.

“We’re talking about girls age 4”



They have mentally ill parents.


The rest, sadly suffer from societal outcast and/or mental illness. Just look at their suicide numbers.

 

[bobgeese]

It would seem the most obvious way to stave off immediate, irrevocable disaster would be to ban these radical suggestions of puberty blockers, cross-gender hormone therapy and life altering cosmetic surgeries - Jesus Christ, and people get mad at me for saying this shit is radically different from a non-hetero sexual orientation - for minors.

I was literally in the supermarket the other day, a little girl, maybe 6 says

“Daddy I want chicken livers”

Like any sane adult he told her no you don’t, and ignored her whining afterwards.






@Sano would have bought them for her, then wondered all night why she didn’t eat more than 1 bite.

 

[NoDak]

That year? If it's all time that's actually lower than I would have expected.

Curious, how do you feel about a legislative ban on the practice entirely? I have heard cases where some people voluntarily - granted, it's probably a result of social pressure and coercion by those close to them, but it's still strictly speaking voluntary - put themselves through it. I like people to do what they want but it seems like something worth considering banning outright to me.

Neither necessarily, but among the present the 18-59 population. It's probably not higher because most people are 'straight-passing' and more or less in the closet throughout childhood. I knew at like 9/10 years old. There's no way in hell I was going to be disclosing that shit though, and pretty much goes for the majority of people I know.

These days it's predominantly a thing that happens in the hyper-religious bible belt states where, despite a near absolute lack of 'indoctrination' (heh), people still continue turning out to be gay and bisexual. Weird. Lou Reed is probably the most famous example (and wrote a song about it); they were using electroshock therapy and nausea inducing drugs back then. A little better than ice pick lobotomies or castration, I suppose.

I'd ban it for minors, adults can do whatever. It's a decent theme.

 

[Sano]

It would seem the most obvious way to stave off immediate, irrevocable disaster would be to ban these radical suggestions of puberty blockers, cross-gender hormone therapy and life altering cosmetic surgeries - Jesus Christ, and people get mad at me for saying this shit is radically different from a non-hetero sexual orientation - for minors.

Just to be clear, reading through, it seems the legal limit to start puberty blockers is Tanner stage 2, so from about 9-11 years old. Although it's reversible, there's a debate about what the lower limit should be. No 4 year old is getting treatment.

Should any hormone blocking be banned for children under the age of 18 in all instances? I couldn't say. I'm not an expert on the subject, and I would have to do a lot more research to make any definitive statement about it. Or do you mean all trans people, period?

It's clearly different from sexual orientation, I agree.

I was literally in the supermarket the other day, a little girl, maybe 6 says

“Daddy I want chicken livers”

Like any sane adult he told her no you don’t, and ignored her whining afterwards.






@Sano would have bought them for her, then wondered all night why she didn’t eat more than 1 bite.

Now you're just making a strawman.

 

[Not A Theist]

Neither necessarily, but among the present the 18-59 population. It's probably not higher because most people are 'straight-passing' and more or less in the closet throughout childhood. I knew at like 9/10 years old. There's no way in hell I was going to be disclosing that shit though, and pretty much goes for the majority of people I know.

These days it's predominantly a thing that happens in the hyper-religious bible belt states where, despite a near absolute lack of 'indoctrination' (heh), people still continue turning out to be gay and bisexual. Weird. Lou Reed is probably the most famous example (and wrote a song about it); they were using electroshock therapy and nausea inducing drugs back then. A little better than ice pick lobotomies or castration, I suppose.

I'd ban it for minors, adults can do whatever. It's a decent theme.

That sounds about right - though, given different home environments, I think we'll see more 9 to 10 year olds coming out. Also, given the current climate, we'll probably see some false positives due to hormonal confusion - whereas previously I think we saw a lot of false positives who thought they were straight since they weren't even presented anything else as a real option.

It's one of those things... Growing up on a farm, you just realize some animals are gay, full stop. One day you look out the window and big nuts the ram is at it with that other ram again while the ewes sat there grazing happily. It figures that humans might be the same way if you didn't put tremendous social pressure to not be that way, attempting to software overwrite hard wiring.

That's a good and balanced approach. I find the practice troubling as all holy hell, but the problem with a complete ban is that then the people banning it are the ones telling gay people what they want. That's the problem we're trying to get away from. With all of the self destructive stuff we let people do to themselves now, really, what's the big deal about letting someone who actually wants it go through conversion therapy?

 

[bobgeese]

Just to be clear, reading through, it seems the legal limit to start puberty blockers is Tanner stage 2, so from about 9-11 years old. Although it's reversible, there's a debate about what the lower limit should be. No 4 year old is getting treatment.

Should any hormone blocking be banned for children under the age of 18 in all instances? I couldn't say. I'm not an expert on the subject, and I would have to do a lot more research to make any definitive statement about it. Or do you mean all trans people, period?

It's clearly different from sexual orientation, I agree.


Now you're just making a strawman.

It’s far from a straw man argument. It’s a real world example of kids being idiots. What parent in their right mind would listen to their young child say “I’m a boy”?

Pretty sure my brother wanted to be a monster truck...



Btw, we now have children in drag dancing for adults. You totally supportive of that too?

 

[Sano]

It’s far from a straw man argument. It’s a real world example of kids being idiots. What parent in their right mind would listen to their young child say “I’m a boy”?

Pretty sure my brother wanted to be a monster truck...



Btw, we now have children in drag dancing for adults. You totally supportive of that too?

No I find it disgusting children pracing around in skimpy clothes being sexualised by adults. Whether that be a dragqueen kid or a kids beauty pageant.

You're imaging all sorts of stuff that has nothing to do with my opinion.

 

[freakroor]

Damn that's like 95% of UK women

that might even be a low estimate. the only attractive brits i’ve seen are the blacks