UFC 242 Khabib vs Poirier

[ApplesVild]

Something I was just thinking about Khabib and his takedowns and control. It's clear now that his takedowns in open space aren't the best, they're good, but there is a lot of jumping at an ankle and trying to work from that point.

Where he has his real success and does most of his best work and damage is when he gets guys against the cage and works from there, as guys build back up he pulls an arm away or traps a leg and gets then back to square one, and he does this over and over because guys are so used to using the fence to wall walk back to their feet now. Khabib has basically build his game to take advantage of this now standard process.

The way Khabib fights when he is not grappling is geared towards backing his opponent to the cage so he can then engage in the grappling in the position he favours and actually has a game designed to capitalize on.

So what you see is Khabib coming forward, swinging wild, throwing terrible jumping knees, whatever he can to back his opponent up. Add to that the fact that most guys feel pressured to move back when Khabib gets close becsuse they are anticipating a shot and you have a recipe for ending up with your back to the cage just like Khabib wants.

What if someone stood their ground, showed no regard for Khanib coming forward with basicially not good low single attempts, wild swinging of his arms or jumping knees. If a strong striker and good all rounder who was ready to fend off a not so great low single just stood their ground what would Khabib really do? Go for the low single and either catch elbows to the side of the head or have the guy limp leg out and be back to standing... Or if he tries to come in swinging or throwing that stupid jumping knee the superior striker will welcome that and be happy to counter and land actual good technical shots in return.

If you take the centre and show no respect for Khabibs limited offence what options is Khabib left with?

 

[Sono07]

Something I was just thinking about Khabib and his takedowns and control. It's clear now that his takedowns in open space aren't the best, they're good, but there is a lot of jumping at an ankle and trying to work from that point.

Where he has his real success and does most of his best work and damage is when he gets guys against the cage and works from there, as guys build back up he pulls an arm away or traps a leg and gets then back to square one, and he does this over and over because guys are so used to using the fence to wall walk back to their feet now. Khabib has basically build his game to take advantage of this now standard process.

The way Khabib fights when he is not grappling is geared towards backing his opponent to the cage so he can then engage in the grappling in the position he favours and actually has a game designed to capitalize on.

So what you see is Khabib coming forward, swinging wild, throwing terrible jumping knees, whatever he can to back his opponent up. Add to that the fact that most guys feel pressured to move back when Khabib gets close becsuse they are anticipating a shot and you have a recipe for ending up with your back to the cage just like Khabib wants.

What if someone stood their ground, showed no regard for Khanib coming forward with basicially not good low single attempts, wild swinging of his arms or jumping knees. If a strong striker and good all rounder who was ready to fend off a not so great low single just stood their ground what would Khabib really do? Go for the low single and either catch elbows to the side of the head or have the guy limp leg out and be back to standing... Or if he tries to come in swinging or throwing that stupid jumping knee the superior striker will welcome that and be happy to counter and land actual good technical shots in return.

If you take the centre and show no respect for Khabibs limited offence what options is Khabib left with?

I know you mentioned passing on tape before but please tell me you've watched the main event fighters previous bouts? Khabib's single leg is not his best take down true but tell me you haven't missed the nuance in it. It looks lazy because of the range and lack set up, on the surface it a very basic wrestling skill that alot of fighter fall back on in a pinch. What the Eagle does is shoot from further out and aim for a lower part of the leg. The best part though is his positioning mid shot, he is already grounded and by the mma rule book unable to be legally struck to the head by those legs he so desires to grab. So he then what, gets out wrestled doubtful. Elbows to the head maybe? Back of the heads out of play and any wrestler worth their salt knows to tuck your chin and use head postion to drive for control. When they do end up in a grappling exchange Dustin would do well to utilize his hand position rather than panic strike, either way his shoulders will end up flat to the mat

 

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Ariel Helwani's UFC 242 Preview Special will be live on ESPN Radio at 9 pm ET this evening: http://www.espn.com/espnradio/index

 

[ApplesVild]

I know you mentioned passing on tape before but please tell me you've watched the main event fighters previous bouts? Khabib's single leg is not his best take down true but tell me you haven't missed the nuance in it. It looks lazy because of the range and lack set up, on the surface it a very basic wrestling skill that alot of fighter fall back on in a pinch. What the Eagle does is shoot from further out and aim for a lower part of the leg. The best part though is his positioning mid shot, he is already grounded and by the mma rule book unable to be legally struck to the head by those legs he so desires to grab. So he then what, gets out wrestled doubtful. Elbows to the head maybe? Back of the heads out of play and any wrestler worth their salt knows to tuck your chin and use head postion to drive for control. When they do end up in a grappling exchange Dustin would do well to utilize his hand position rather than panic strike, either way his shoulders will end up flat to the mat

Those ankle grabbing shots can work early, and they probably will, as the rounds progress a lot more of those open space low ankle shots will be stuffed or limp legged.

With the early shots staying cage centre there is a lot less threat. Khabib will grab the ankle and the have to work work work to eventually secure a good position.. But he's out in the open, where he hasn't shown his best work and he has a guy who has a good offensive and defensive ground game down there with him. One option there for Dustin is to accept bottom, defend as much as he can and take any opportunity to land elbows or potentially attack a sub if they present themselves. He loses the round if he doesn't get back up but he comes out of it basically unscathed.

Against Al in the later rounds he stood his ground, stayed in the centre and was able to limp leg a fair few takedown attempts from there. Yeah Al was eating jab after jab but just by not moving back he left Khabib unable to secure a takedown or work as he usually would. What if Al had better more diverse and more powerful striking in that same scenario? He would have slipped the jab and countered, he should have went on the offensive, maybe even backed Khabib up.

I've seen a lot of fighters when asked what they would need to do if they were fighting Khabib and most say 'don't get backed up to the cage'. The question is why are they getting backed up? It's not the striking threat, it's the takedown threat, but if I know his open space takedowns are not good, and the MMA analysts know this then I am sure a top camp like ATT are well aware.

If you don't back up and don't fear the open space take down because you feel you can either stuff it, limp leg out, get back to your feet or even just survive on bottom if it does happen. Then how does Khabib get you to the fence to do his real work?

 

[DevilsPt2]

I mean he has only been in so many 5 rounders to get a "late finish" and as you mentioned just outlasted Gaethje, had the greatest accumulation/volume striker, and one of the most durable guys in the history of the sport hurt in rd5, finished Pettis rd 3, Eddie late rd2. He clearly carries power late and has proven to have good cardio or at the very least an ability to fight through fatigue to still land with fight changing shots.

I dont think I underestimate Dustin, I knew he was an elite fighter before many realized it, took him vs Alvarez both times and I knew he was better in the first fight while others doubted. Yeah he still had power against Holloway but this will be a more draining fight than that. Khabib also wont be available to be hit as Holloway. The key here is going to be Dustins distance management, footwork/angling off the cage and countering at the end of his range. Honestly, lets be real though, this is a LW fight and hes probably going to have to one shot him or hurt him multiple times in a short period to finish

 

[Sono07]

Those ankle grabbing shots can work early, and they probably will, as the rounds progress a lot more of those open space low ankle shots will be stuffed or limp legged.

With the early shots staying cage centre there is a lot less threat. Khabib will grab the ankle and the have to work work work to eventually secure a good position.. But he's out in the open, where he hasn't shown his best work and he has a guy who has a good offensive and defensive ground game down there with him. One option there for Dustin is to accept bottom, defend as much as he can and take any opportunity to land elbows or potentially attack a sub if they present themselves. He loses the round if he doesn't get back up but he comes out of it basically unscathed.

Against Al in the later rounds he stood his ground, stayed in the centre and was able to limp leg a fair few takedown attempts from there. Yeah Al was eating jab after jab but just by not moving back he left Khabib unable to secure a takedown or work as he usually would. What if Al had better more diverse and more powerful striking in that same scenario? He would have slipped the jab and countered, he should have went on the offensive, maybe even backed Khabib up.

I've seen a lot of fighters when asked what they would need to do if they were fighting Khabib and most say 'don't get backed up to the cage'. The question is why are they getting backed up? It's not the striking threat, it's the takedown threat, but if I know his open space takedowns are not good, and the MMA analysts know this then I am sure a top camp like ATT are well aware.

If you don't back up and don't fear the open space take down because you feel you can either stuff it, limp leg out, get back to your feet or even just survive on bottom if it does happen. Then how does Khabib get you to the fence to do his real work?

Hate to keep hyping the main event but I appreciate the contrarian opinion. That Stockton slap against Mcgregor wasn't the best display of octagon control but between that and the beautiful feint to overhand right I think he has shown more than enough willingness to stand and trade. The ranged jab and single leg of the champ look sloppy but they're staples of the game for a reason they don't lack effectiveness. Dustin's boxing looks clean and sharp. Although as far as I can tell he leans heavy on his lead leg to fire off combos. He seems more prone to counter punch rather than push forward. His wrestling against Holloway looked labored and lazy although he showed good technical skill. I think people get alot more surprised Saturday by the Champs offense than Dustin's. Either way I don't think DP backs down and probably fights to the cards, should be a good watch though. Starting to like Felder more and more as well

 

[barrygood1]

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[Martialbeef]

Any Brits who enjoy a decent prop Felder 2 or more takedowns is 25/1...

 

[Kyle Stephens]

What if someone stood their ground, showed no regard for Khanib coming forward with basicially not good low single attempts, wild swinging of his arms or jumping knees. If a strong striker and good all rounder who was ready to fend off a not so great low single just stood their ground what would Khabib really do?

He is not gonna do anything other than trying his usual shit over and over again, I've not seen him going to another gear. But you are right - if you wanna beat Khabib you must either stood your ground, or circle out of range. But unfortunately the evidence we have on Dustin from tape is that he is not very consistent with his footwork when he is pressured. He is often opting to jump out of range straight back with his philly shell. I fear that Khabib might just increase the intensity, even if Poirier is more technical at the beginning and thus making him revert to his prefered method of defence which is indeed the shell guard and going back in a straight line.

Most of the people prefer to just back up because they don't have confidence in their counter game and they don't want to end up in hip to hip situation with Khabib. But backing yourself to the fence is practically giving away Khabib your hips minus the opportunity to hit him hard with a counter when he is most vulnerable. And a counter shot might stop his movement. Let's not forget that Khabib is very very fast. He is an A level athlete. He might not have good pressure footwork, but he is simply very fast. Both handspeed and footspeed.

 

[Ryan Kelly]

So many clueless people in this forum it's funny af. I'll come back to this thread with my pocket full of cash and a grin on my face reading these comments about Poirer lmao.

Ps. watch dustin get choked in r2

This bro trains ufc in case anyone missed his last dozen posts. Be guided accordingly.

 

[Ryan Kelly]

Khabib also wont be available to be hit as Holloway.

Questionable

 

[Wiktoruspro]

Anyone think Salikhov might be able to get rid of Taleb? I have a hard time trusting the durability of someone twatted by Strickland...

Strickland might be boring but he is still a big ww so he Has power, no shame in losing to him by ko

 

[Gugabe]

Questionable

Yeah. Khabib is way more hittable than Holloway

 

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Peter Carroll of MMA Fighting, the voice behind the live weigh-in stream says that he heard that the air conditioning unit in the temporary stadium in Abu Dhabi where the event is being held only go put in Wednesday and it takes three days of running to work at optimal efficiency. So the stadium could be hot & humid on Saturday and fighters sweating.

 

[null]

Carlos Diego Ferreira went to the hoop, looked really skinny, sucked in and rough on the scale and had to be helped to walk off leaning on his coach.

Sarah Moras went to the hoop also and weighed in at 138 pounds, two pounds heavy but looked okay otherwise.

 

[burge13]

Carlos Diego Ferreira went to the hoop, looked really skinny, sucked in and rough on the scale and had to be helped to walk off leaning on his coach.

Sarah Moras went to the hoop also and weighed in at 138 pounds, two pounds heavy but looked okay otherwise.

Doctors didn't let her continue the cut though. Must not be in that great condition?

 

[Wiktoruspro]

Lol at betting moras , she sucks bad

 

[Deleted member 560591]

lol at all the parrot talk from people who have never wrestled a day in their life about khabib’s entries & single leg because they listened to a podcast of people who have never wrestled in their life.

khabib‘s entire game is based on getting a hold on you. it doesn’t matter if you defend 1, 2 or even 3 takedowns. he is a chain wrestler and wtf is all that single leg talk about ? most of his takedowns come from the clinch. he can do all takedowns. khabib has the bodylocks & sambo trips and he has good singles and doubles since he started working at AKA after the tibau fight.

his single leg is great because he times it so well and shoots very low to avoid danger. you know who has actually bad entries ? ben askren because he fights like it’s a wrestling match just walking into everything like the masvidal knee. khabib moves, circles and shoots in the perfect moment. you can stop it but he works his way up from the initial shot.

people love to shit on khabib referencing the iaquinta fight because they think "this dude can’t strike and he dives for the leg". it’s not that simple.

the funniest thing is that dustin poirier has never ever even fought a chain wrestler in his entire life lol. all this talk about khabib being too basic etc. while we have extremely limited data on poirier‘s actual takedown defence.

 

[Kyle Stephens]

There are plenty of people that never wrestled or fought in any way, but can write an amazing analysis and breakdown of fights.
Khabib has A-level athleticism, you cannot deny this helps out a lot to mask any inefficiencies, flaws etc. I forgot - and he is monster for the weightclass and has cardio of a flyweight.