maia believes sigle leg is the best takedown for mma

[tekkenfan]

I think everyone here studies mma grappling. It's a big part of why this exist.

You named three of the best wrestlers in the game as examples of people who use single legs. You also forgot to mention maia, khabib, and Cormier. Gregor Gillespie too. I remember cain using a fair amount of them as well. I think lovato went mostly for singles against gegard but I only watched that fight once.

I'm having a harder time thinking of guys who don't use singles.

i feel at hw and lhw singles work better than doubles due to guys not havig as good of balance as smaller guys and its harder t lock hands around bigger guys hips takes alottt of energy to finish a double on a big guy so yeah cain and dc were high crotch monsters in mma if eel they both realized that being they were small hws


i dont see gillespie hitting many singles tbh he usually doubles and sags on guys from what i seen to get them down

yeah maia without question when gets his hands locked gets his dump finish i was just stating that the very top guys who have sucess finishing the single is chris weidman

maia and weidman use head outside singles colby and usman use head inside singles tbh i dont like head inside singles for mma i feel you have to wrestle alot more to finish automatically guy whizzers starts ahnd fighting/controling wrist which is why jake sheilds seemed to be the first good bjj/grappler type to start using head outside since msot guys unless wrestled for a long time didnt have good answers to it no whizzering hand fighting is much harder to do and u can chain it to a double or crotch lift easy

yeah from what iv noticed colby and usman are only guys who are top wrestlers who use a head inside single colby usually either tree tops the guy with a trip or just runs them down with a knee tap havent notice usman ever finish a single but he gets it and pushes guys to fence with it then goes to work with clinching

 

[tekkenfan]

also i think you are wrong on the everyone here studies mma gappling id say most guys here are gi bjj purist.

a decade ago sure but since 2011 whe bjj gi became more mainstream and mma gyms started to die out most guys just use sherdog for their sport bjj source as tbh theirs maybe 8 guys here who really know their stuff when it comes to mma style grappling from what iv seen

 

[dsdoubled]

Agree with posters above that the best TD is the one you know the best. And the double probably IS the most common high probability TD for pro fighters and high level grapplers. But almost all of that subset are explosive 20-35 year olds with great technique and set ups.

But even among former high level wrestlers, attempting doubles away from the cage seems to be almost nonexistent once they hit mid late 30's. I'm thinking guys like Randy, Hendo, Yoel and Sherk come to mind (he wasn't a "high level" wrestler but had a crazy explosive double until his second UFC run in his 30's).

But for those of us who aren't pro fighters or high level BB's, IME shooting for a double vs. someone much larger and/or equal or greater skill and explosion is a recipe for getting stuffed. Something like basic O goshi or bodylock + O uchi gari or O soto gari is much easier to learn and implement by any body type.

I'm with you. I don't know if its bc I've always been on the tall side (6'2) or bc I had my first significant knee injury at age 10, but I rarely shot doubles.

Engage--->tie up--->arm drag/slide by/clear the arm--->body lock and/or go-behind--->throw/trip/drag down.

If I were a fighter I imagine I could use this even more so with the fence.

 

[ChickenBrother]

I'm with you. I don't know if its bc I've always been on the tall side (6'2) or bc I had my first significant knee injury at age 10, but I rarely shot doubles.

Engage--->tie up--->arm drag/slide by/clear the arm--->body lock and/or go-behind--->throw/trip/drag down.

If I were a fighter I imagine I could use this even more so with the fence.

I know people think of it as a low level WMMA move, but I've also always liked head and arm throw from tie up. It's probably the cleanest throw you can execute from collar tie and doesn't require explosive level change or penetration. Yes, it potentially allows them to take your back in a ground scramble but you can mitigate that by sweeping your leg backwards during the throw for harai goshi or knee up for hane goshi to generate more amplitude and allow you to land with more control in Judo scarf hold.

 

[tekkenfan]

I know people think of it as a low level WMMA move, but I've also always liked head and arm throw from tie up. It's probably the cleanest throw you can execute from collar tie and doesn't require explosive level change or penetration. Yes, it potentially allows them to take your back in a ground scramble but you can mitigate that by sweeping your leg backwards during the throw for harai goshi or knee up for hane goshi to generate more amplitude and allow you to land with more control in Judo scarf hold.

i think head arm throws are very hard to hit on good guys especially today the only throws i use re uchi mata or harai goshi due to you being able to use it as a counter attack so they arnt even thinking of defense in that moment

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

I don't have a video for it, but at times he doesn't even need to lift the guy off his feet. If your weight is all on one side, he just drags your weighted leg with his leg and you go down.

His grip when he comes in on a single leg is out of this world. It's like a bear trap's been sprung on the leg! Usually people can limp-leg and push away but that's just not an option with Khabibi. The best recent examples I can think of was against McG. Ended up elevating him and sweeping the leg to finish it, but the setup consisted of him diving on the ankle from across the Octagon and slowly working his way up for the take down. The fact that Conor was doing everything right in defending it just didn't seem to matter.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Tj dillashaw said the same thing regarding the shoe. Said singles don’t work in mma because the lack of a shoe, but there’s countless examples of that not being true. Maybe it’s a smaller guy thing though, because singles seem to work great at hw

That's cuz HW's don't have the agility or fleetness of foot to defend them properly. Agile smaller fighters like prime BJ could defend singles all day (and sometimes did).

 

[Smato_rules]

That's cuz HW's don't have the agility or fleetness of foot to defend them properly. Agile smaller fighters like prime BJ could defend singles all day (and sometimes did).

Good point. I still remember that crazy bj clip of him defending that single leg in the air

 

[ChickenBrother]

i think head arm throws are very hard to hit on good guys especially today the only throws i use re uchi mata or harai goshi due to you being able to use it as a counter attack so they arnt even thinking of defense in that moment

Agree vs. good guys. Vs. regular BJJ guys without wrestling or MMA background, I've actually hit it as a counter to them getting double unders LOL. But yeah uchi mata is great as both offense and counter and even if you don't get in deep, you can start from outside and do the "fat man uchi mata" of progressively jumping in a circle until you can complete the throw. Wish I had a clean uchi mata, it's such a versatile throw but doesn't work well for me (short legs, long torso and not very flexible). Of the uki goshi / uchi mata / hane goshi / harai goshi series, the only one that cleanly works for me is hane goshi, although I can pull off clean harai goshi with head and arm (or in gi by grabbing belt or back of gi jacket). But uchi mata is the most versatile because you don't need to be as deep to initiate the throw.

 

[Ishaq]

His grip when he comes in on a single leg is out of this world. It's like a bear trap's been sprung on the leg! Usually people can limp-leg and push away but that's just not an option with Khabibi. The best recent examples I can think of was against McG. Ended up elevating him and sweeping the leg to finish it, but the setup consisted of him diving on the ankle from across the Octagon and slowly working his way up for the take down. The fact that Conor was doing everything right in defending it just didn't seem to matter.

I would have loved to see Khabib fight against a World class wrestler. Someone like a Gregor Gillespie and a Mark Madsen(if he improved his striking).

I wonder if he will able to manhandle those guys like he does everyone else.

 

[tekkenfan]

That's cuz HW's don't have the agility or fleetness of foot to defend them properly. Agile smaller fighters like prime BJ could defend singles all day (and sometimes did).

this idk why people dont realize that bigger guys arnt as athletic as smaller so certain things work better usually i feel for striking punches work better at hw and single legs compared to doubles u dont lose lot of energy on a quick single vs clinch/doubles as well so training a hw who likes to grapple working the helll out of singles inside and outside

 

[tekkenfan]

I would have loved to see Khabib fight against a World class wrestler. Someone like a Gregor Gillespie and a Mark Madsen(if he improved his striking).

I wonder if he will able to manhandle those guys like he does everyone else.

tbh khabib isnt that great of a wrestler in the open its when he has you against the fence khabib is a master of the cage to me but as a mma wrestler from shooting in open he has alot of problems tbh gillespie is a good 15 pounds or more smaller but would for sure out grapple him from the center against the fence im sure khabib woud get him down not sure if he could keep him tbh

 

[tekkenfan]

Agree vs. good guys. Vs. regular BJJ guys without wrestling or MMA background, I've actually hit it as a counter to them getting double unders LOL. But yeah uchi mata is great as both offense and counter and even if you don't get in deep, you can start from outside and do the "fat man uchi mata" of progressively jumping in a circle until you can complete the throw. Wish I had a clean uchi mata, it's such a versatile throw but doesn't work well for me (short legs, long torso and not very flexible). Of the uki goshi / uchi mata / hane goshi / harai goshi series, the only one that cleanly works for me is hane goshi, although I can pull off clean harai goshi with head and arm (or in gi by grabbing belt or back of gi jacket). But uchi mata is the most versatile because you don't need to be as deep to initiate the throw.

its hard to get a clean uchi without the gi tbh even karo couldnt hit them clean in his fights clean

with uchi i like to ankle pick the far leg i find it a much easier finish

 

[Ishaq]

tbh khabib isnt that great of a wrestler in the open its when he has you against the fence khabib is a master of the cage to me but as a mma wrestler from shooting in open he has alot of problems tbh gillespie is a good 15 pounds or more smaller but would for sure out grapple him from the center against the fence im sure khabib woud get him down not sure if he could keep him tbh

There is a Cage in MMA so I'd like to know whether Khabib will be able to dominate Gillespie/Madsen against the cage the way he does everyone else. Madsen is a Greco Roman Olympic medalist.

 

[tekkenfan]

There is a Cage in MMA so I'd like to know whether Khabib will be able to dominate Gillespie/Madsen against the cage the way he does everyone else. Madsen is a Greco Roman Olympic medalist.

im sure he would madson being hes a greco guy khabib wouldnt just try to sit in a over under with him on the fence im sure he would go low for the legs greco guys dont have great tdd on average when you look at dan chael randy ect they are more top heavy

 

[ChickenBrother]

its hard to get a clean uchi without the gi tbh even karo couldnt hit them clean in his fights clean

with uchi i like to ankle pick the far leg i find it a much easier finish

In no gi hane goshi from over under tie up works well for me for some reason, and I've seen others hit uchi mata from same position. But I agree chaining ankle pick after they hip in to defend uchi mata is a great counter to their counter.

 

[generalyum]

Agree. And not just for MMA, for effective takedowns period.

I’ve always thought doubles can work great if you are 1) young, 2) explosive and 3) flexible. If you are the opposite of those like I am, you will struggle with completing them vs. physically equal or better opponents.

Single legs work well for every body type and they also age well. 40+ guys can still hit them along with foot sweeps and upper body throws in both gi and no gi. I like to spam de ashi barai into either ankle pick or high inside single with O uchi gari.

Damn couldn't have said it better myself. /thread

 

[Ishaq]

im sure he would madson being hes a greco guy khabib wouldnt just try to sit in a over under with him on the fence im sure he would go low for the legs greco guys dont have great tdd on average when you look at dan chael randy ect they are more top heavy

Don't know if I can agree with that without seeing it myself.

High possibility that it will be Khabib the one having to defend takedowns against guys like Madsen and Gillespie.

 

[tekkenfan]

Don't know if I can agree with that without seeing it myself.

High possibility that it will be Khabib the one having to defend takedowns against guys like Madsen and Gillespie.

i think khabib style wise is perfect for him shooting low singles ad him being a greco guy n all i dont see khabib doing his normal thing of pressing him to fence and s gripping onto over under i see him shooting that low single like vs conor and getting him down and avoiding the clinch


also he is a small 155er like gillespie both guys need to go down a weight class wrestlings the hardest of the major 4 styles to use vs guys bigger most guys they fight are at least 5 pounds larger in most cases even 10 t 15 kevin lee vs gillespie kevin was the much bigger man is till think he would gotten him down but thats a lot of work wish these guys would cut

maias great example he was just undersized for 185 and ended up trying to kick box to compensate lol then dropped down and gave guys a run for their money

 

[tekkenfan]

Damn couldn't have said it better myself. /thread

again at average levels and ins elf defense single leg and body lock is the goat but we are talking about top levels of mma and the single leg just isnt as effective as the double when we look at the stats the number 1 finish is running the pipe which is how 80% of singles are finished the other 2 being tree topping the leg with a foot sweep or or chaining it off to a double