How would current heavyweights do in pride?

[Dionysian]

Prime Semmy Schilt would have no answer for Ngannou's "chin up, run forward, then throw a left-right, left-right, left-right, left-right" striking technique. He never dealt with anyone muscled while in K1. Super-athletes. New breed brah. Gassing in the first is the wave of the future showing the evolution of MMA.

 

[Austinus]

Fedor and Crocop would wreck them all apart from Stipe. DC vs Nog would be a great fight. Ranking would look somthing like this IMO

Fedor
Crocop
Stipe
Sergi
DC
Nog
Ngannou

 

[moreorless87]

As far as the original question goes I think Stipe and Ngannou would be relevant, maybe DC, Overeem and Bladyes, don't think current JDS, Werdum or Arlovski would be or any of the mid level new talent.

 

[kflo]

You cannot be the best at something you cannot be measured at.

Khabib can look amazing at LW. That cannot ever be proof that he is better than Stipe. Him performing better in a different class against men his size doesn't make him better. And if they fought, Khabib wouldn't look like a top 50 fighter.

P4P is not real, it's not tangible. It's a marketing tool. And a very subjective one.

You’re trying to ignore the fact that the sport has weight classes as part of its rule set. Lol.

 

[Feardafighta1126]

Stipe would have trouble with Coleman

 

[moreorless87]

Prime Semmy Schilt would have no answer for Ngannou's "chin up, run forward, then throw a left-right, left-right, left-right, left-right" striking technique. He never dealt with anyone muscled while in K1. Super-athletes. New breed brah. Gassing in the first is the wave of the future showing the evolution of MMA.

I actually think Semmy today would do very well, in Pride he faced alot of elite grapplers(Nog, Fedor, Barnett, Sergei) who could take him down and finish him but today the division is very like on that level of grappling. He wasnt totally helpless on the ground, not so elite grapplers were not able to beat him in that fashion and he even has a few sub finishes.

I mean even back in the day Semmy could have caused massive problems for Mirko, Hunt or Sylvia but never got those fights.

 

[waldywaldy]

Level an depth in Pride were higher for sure

For fuck's sake, 40- year old Reem is still top 10 at HW almost 15 years after Pride died

 

[boss429]

Had a random thought on how the current top heavyweights would do up against competition in their prime in pride? You got stipe, dc, ngannou against the likes of prime fedor, cro cop, and mark hunt. I feel like ngannou might possibly be the ultimate destroyer under pride rules probably defeating prime fedor and cro cop.

Haha, they could all probably win some fights as well as lose some fights but the fights being in a ring, the 10 minute first round and potential for yellow cards could play a big role.

Regardless though Prime Fedor destroys Francis and Prime Crocop and Iron chinned Hunt likely do too, not to mention iron chinned prime Nog likely catching him in a sub after getting rocked and Sergei Kharitonov also being a bad match up for him. Aleks would have been a tough one as well.

I'm curious how you see Francis doing in Pride what kickboxing legend and multiple time K1 Champion Semmy Schilt couldn't do, or how you imagine he would be "the ultimate destroyer" in Pride?

 

[sampuncher]

Are they allowed to roid like the Pride guys?

 

[boss429]

ufc hw's today would of course do fine in pride.

we know the pride records would be worse if they fought higher caliber opponents more frequently.

it would have been fun. lots of fun matchups. pride guys had ways to win, with certain strengths but most were beatable.

The reason Pride guy's didn't fight "higher caliber opponents more frequently" was because they fought 4 or 5 times a year instead if 1 or 2.

So yeah, technically their records would be "worse" if they fought at the same pace as UFC fighters do but only "worse" in the respect they would have a smaller number in the "W" column.

Fedor would still have nearly twice as many Top 10 wins as Stipe and would have still gone unbeaten in Pride but he would have had 3 or 4 fewer wins during his Pride run. But he also wouldn't have fought a lesser opponent and the #2 HW in the World at the time in the same night either since the UFC HWs have never done that in the modern era so it's a trade off.

 

[superpunch]

As far as the original question goes I think Stipe and Ngannou would be relevant, maybe DC, Overeem and Bladyes, don't think current JDS, Werdum or Arlovski would be or any of the mid level new talent.

... You seriously don't think JDS/ Werdum/ Arlovski could beat guys like Yoshida and Minowa? They would all be absolute top of the division after Fedor, Cro Cop, maybe Nog, Alex, and Herring. Maybe Sergei too.

 

[moreorless87]

... You seriously don't think JDS/ Werdum/ Arlovski could beat guys like Yoshida and Minowa? They would all be absolute top of the division after Fedor, Cro Cop, maybe Nog, Alex, and Herring. Maybe Sergei too.

Well if beating Minowa is your standard for being relevant then I spose Zulu was relevant, by that I mean fighters would would be among the elite.

Would I pick todays Arlovski to beat a prime Sergei? the guy he lost to a decade ago? no way in hell.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Did someone seriously say Aleks would wreck DC in this thread?

 

[SandaKicker]

Did someone seriously say Aleks would wreck DC in this thread?

Who said that? That’s a horrible match up for Aleksander.

 

[Melas Chasma]

I think Curtis Blaydes would be the PRIDE HW champ.

Jarl

He would be a difficult match up for Fedor, but Mirko had a really good TDD. Curtis vs Barnett would be interesting on the ground.

 

[Make Sherdog Great Again]

Even the USADA heavyweights would wreck shit in Pride, let alone if you allowed them all to get juiced to the gills like every Pride HW was.

 

[kflo]

The reason Pride guy's didn't fight "higher caliber opponents more frequently" was because they fought 4 or 5 times a year instead if 1 or 2.

So yeah, technically their records would be "worse" if they fought at the same pace as UFC fighters do but only "worse" in the respect they would have a smaller number in the "W" column.

Fedor would still have nearly twice as many Top 10 wins as Stipe and would have still gone unbeaten in Pride but he would have had 3 or 4 fewer wins during his Pride run. But he also wouldn't have fought a lesser opponent and the #2 HW in the World at the time in the same night either since the UFC HWs have never done that in the modern era so it's a trade off.

i don't believe that to be true. fedor rarely fought the natural #1 contender or next in line when he was at the top. i don't agree he would have had the same streak or record. if fedor, nog, werdum, sergei, barnett, cro-cop, aleks, randy, mir, arlovski, hunt, etc are all in a fishbowl fighting each other fight after fight, of course their collective records would be worse. it's not rocket science.

and c'mon, he beat an old judoka in a minute......

 

[KeyboardFighter]

Fedor had an Olympic level boxing coach, worked with world class kickboxing coaches, again I think your view of the history of the sport is an invention to serve modern UFC hype.

Yeah sure but did those coaches know anything about MMA? And how much did he really work with them? I know he went to Holland as part of his fight camp at the later stages of his carrer, but don't know the extent to it. Maybe I am exegerating it a bit but you seem to go the other way, imo. From what I remember watching during those days it was still very much uncertainty about what worked and what didn't. And I also remember Fedor not really working on his overall striking game untill later in his PRIDE carrer.

 

[moreorless87]

Yeah sure but did those coaches know anything about MMA? And how much did he really work with them? I know he went to Holland as part of his fight camp at the later stages of his carrer, but don't know the extent to it. Maybe I am exegerating it a bit but you seem to go the other way, imo. From what I remember watching during those days it was still very much uncertainty about what worked and what didn't. And I also remember Fedor not really working on his overall striking game untill later in his PRIDE carrer.

It depends alot in the time period your talking about, the late 90's was I think an era were rapid evolution was happening at HW, there was uncertainy still about what worked and what didn't plus the sport as a whole was quite disorganized but by the early 00's I think you'd seen an influx of superior talent and training/tactics that had really adapted to MMA.

I think alot of modern training isnt an evolution of what someone like Fedor was learning its a devolution, Fedor was showing timing and defence way beyond what I think we see at HW today and mixing in some advanced technique such as hand traps. The kind of standardised MMA training thats become dominant in the current era I think is actually quite simplified in alot of ways, its aimed at rounding out the skill sets of fighters who don't always have natural ability in other areas.

In Fedors case I think he was a quality Judoka who had very strong natural boxing ability which was rounded out and adapted to MMA very nicely. He was working full time with quality boxing coaches and pretty regularly with quality kickboxing coaches.

Honestly I think one of the things that stands out for me is how often do you see HW fights with really impressive technique these days? the closest we see is Ngannou blasting people with fast btu relatively sloppy boxing. HW used to be a division of technically impressive fights or finishes, now it seems like a "who falls first" division.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

It depends alot in the time period your talking about, the late 90's was I think an era were rapid evolution was happening at HW, there was uncertainy still about what worked and what didn't plus the sport as a whole was quite disorganized but by the early 00's I think you'd seen an influx of superior talent and training/tactics that had really adapted to MMA.

I think alot of modern training isnt an evolution of what someone like Fedor was learning its a devolution, Fedor was showing timing and defence way beyond what I think we see at HW today and mixing in some advanced technique such as hand traps. The kind of standardised MMA training thats become dominant in the current era I think is actually quite simplified in alot of ways, its aimed at rounding out the skill sets of fighters who don't always have natural ability in other areas.

In Fedors case I think he was a quality Judoka who had very strong natural boxing ability which was rounded out and adapted to MMA very nicely. He was working full time with quality boxing coaches and pretty regularly with quality kickboxing coaches.

I don't disagree with you at all there brother. I think there is alot to learn about the fluidity in the way Fedor approached the game and it probably has become very standardized in how people train MMA today. But still the access to well proven and tested knowledge and dedicated MMA gyms is far greater today. I don't even think that is a controversial opinion, and is something that I've heard well known fighters have stated as well. I remember for example Overeem's explanation to the fall of Fedor's abilities and his opinion was that he simply didn't adapt to todays MMA. He would know if anyone.