Social Havana’s once stately homes crumble as their residents live in fear of an imminent collapse

[Rod1]

Lets ignore the embargo, sanctions and 70 years of attempted regime change .

Sure man, lets ignore the billions of subsidies they got from the USSR, Venezuela and a lot of lenders that Cuba swindled.

I wonder how a "blockaded" country managed to accrued tens of billions of debt if they can't really get credit, i also wonder how the Cuban Aristocracy and the Castro Royal Family manage to enjoy every single luxury the West has to offer.

 

[ferrisjso]

Sure man, lets ignore the billions of subsidies they got from the USSR, Venezuela and a lot of lenders that Cuba swindled.

I wonder how a "blockaded" country managed to accrued tens of billions of debt if they can't really get credit, i also wonder how the Cuban Aristocracy and the Castro Royal Family manage to enjoy every single luxury the West has to offer.

I'm an MMTer I don't view debt as an issue or a problem. It is a capitalist construct. And the chains capitalism has put the world into is exactly why they will side with China and Russia who will not hesitate to give them aid no strings attached.

 

[Ichibanner]

Maybe, just maybe, if Cuba didn't have to spend so much on its defense from 600+ CIA assassination attempts on Cuba's leader, Cuba would be better of economically.

How about US enforced embargo?

The thing is the World Corporatocracy cannot allow any nation, however small, to be free of the "FREE MARKET", and to manage their own resources, and to choose their own economic model, and to decide their own fates.

Your points are valid and worth talking about for different reasons, especially to highlight that the US and others aren't "The good guys" opposite Communism as we're referencing it. My belief is simply that Communism goes against human nature so it will never, ever work regardless of intent, foreign influence, or lack thereof.

Corruption, greed, graft, and theft of resources is seen in every form of government because most humans have at least one character flaw that is a weakness to be exploited for whatever gain they or others may get. Addiction, greed, ego, or what have you.

Real, "good" communism isn't absent because of competing forms of government and rivals "defeating it". It fails from within because of the flaws of those who practice it; flaws capitalists, dyed in the wool Democracy supporters, and others can work against.

 

[Rod1]

I'm an MMTer I don't view debt as an issue or a problem. It is a capitalist construct. And the chains capitalism has put the world into is exactly why they will side with China and Russia who will not hesitate to give them aid no strings attached.

Cool so they got tens of billions of subsidies and they couldn't even develop their most basic industries.

I mean back in the 50s-60s we used to see Cuba as the "Saudi Arabia of sugar", nowadays they fuckin have to import that thing.

This is as ridiculous as Venezuela which was the "Saudi Arabia of Latin America" being forced now to import gas from Iran (a country with REAL sanctions).

If you put commies in charge of Sahara it will run out of sand in the end.

 

[Rod1]

Your points are valid and worth talking about for different reasons, especially to highlight that the US and others aren't "The good guys" opposite Communism as we're referencing it. My belief is simply that Communism goes against human nature so it will never, ever work regardless of intent, foreign influence, or lack thereof.

Corruption, greed, graft, and theft of resources is seen in every form of government because most humans have at least one character flaw that is a weakness to be exploited for whatever gain they or others may get. Addiction, greed, ego, or what have you.

Real, "good" communism isn't absent because of competing forms of government and rivals "defeating it". It fails from within because of the flaws of those who practice it; flaws capitalists, dyed in the wool Democracy supporters, and others can work against.

Commies want absolute power, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

This is why most autocracies also have shit economies, its just that commies take it to the next level.

 

[oldshadow]

Maybe, just maybe, if Cuba didn't have to spend so much on its defense from 600+ CIA assassination attempts on Cuba's leader, Cuba would be better of economically.

How about US enforced embargo?

The thing is the World Corporatocracy cannot allow any nation, however small, to be free of the "FREE MARKET", and to manage their own resources, and to choose their own economic model, and to decide their own fates.

What countries besides the US ( which I don't agree with) have a trade embargo on Cuba. Hell US tourists still go there by going through Canada and the Cubans don't stamp their passport so they don't get in trouble. The US knows about it and just let's it go.

Cuba is open to most other countries.

 

[ferrisjso]

Cool so they got tens of billions of subsidies and they couldn't even develop their most basic industries.

I mean back in the 50s-60s we used to see Cuba as the "Saudi Arabia of sugar", nowadays they fuckin have to import that thing.

This is as ridiculous as Venezuela which was the "Saudi Arabia of Latin America" being forced now to import gas from Iran (a country with REAL sanctions).

If you put commies in charge of Sahara it will run out of sand in the end.

Its a tiny island thats curing cancers on a shoestring budget under an embargo. Cuba would not have been a superpower regardless of it's modes of production.

Part of capitalist arrogance is you expect everyone to acknwoledge your rules and the logic behind them and are incapable of appeasing people when they become alienated(the most basic thing all the most successful empires had in common). You're high on your own supply of self righteousness and have lost sight of the fact you're oppressing people and you have to appease them. You're going to lecture people about austerity, rules based order and markets and expect them to go along with it even as those things destroy them. One day that will come back to bite y;all in the ass.

That's okay I don't like sand it's course and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

In all seriousness the end there is projection. Like communism ain't designed to use up all the worlds resources and expand forever.

 

[Oris79]

In before "BUT THIS ISN'T REAL COMMUNISM !" from the typical woke left clowns.

 

[Rod1]

Its a tiny island thats curing cancers on a shoestring budget under an embargo. Cuba would not have been a superpower regardless of it's modes of production.

They couldn't cure Hugo Chavez cancer, even Russian doctors who saw Chavez after he was about to die said Cuban doctors did a terrible job at it.

Their "cure for cancer" isn't peer reviewed.

 

[Rod1]

In all seriousness the end there is projection. Like communism ain't designed to use up all the worlds resources and expand forever.

Of course its about enslaving a large amount of population and having them live with the bare necessities while the aristocracy and royalty live like kings.

I guess feudalism is a good thing because feudal societies consume less resources.

Of course feudalism was great for the feudal lord, not so much for the peasants.

 

[Ichibanner]

Making profit and needing to continue to maximize that forever is the issue. There is no point where capitalism stops and says "we've got a good thing going lets quit while we're ahead and be sustainable". You cannot take a snapshot in time of capitalism at a point it was acceptable to you and get that. It works mechanically like a cancer cell it must expand forever until it kills its host. Everything good created by capitalism is eventually destroyed by capitalism just like the natural world is.


People having to rely on a system that is trying to cut costs in order to pay them is inherently bad for people. Right wingers talk about dependence on govt which in theory is the most stable thing there is while ignoring dependence on a force that is legally obligated to try and fuck them over via fidicuary duty. Govt might try to hurt you but it's not required to as a force of nature it's doing that as a policy choice.

In capitalism capitalists will ALWAYS eventually get enough money to corrupt govt. MMTers like myself who don't believe taxation is necessary to fund shit don't support abolishing taxes for expressley this reason.

Again, the problem isn't Capitalism. It's HUMANS. Your corruption is found in Communism. Ruling party members don't drive Lladas and Lifans like the people they rule over. They drive Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and such and the capitalist Billionaires within the system own Ferraris, Rolls Royce, Porsches and more. Same human tendencies and weakness. Spy agencies compromise a Communist with the same methods that you compromise a Capitalist in a Democratic country.

I fair better under Capitalism than my friend's family did under Communism and they faired and continue to fair better under Capitalism than they did under Communism. The choice to succeed is theirs.

What form of Government do you partake in or live under? Do you live better than others in your Country? If so, why? Because you earn more? Because you wanted a nicer home and have a better education to enable it? If you aren't living a minimalist lifestyle and aren't accepting basic pay congratulations; you're like everyone else who desires more than a tiny hovel, mundane unskilled job, and the barest necessities given to you at someone else's leisure. Communism isn't for you.

EDIT: Had to delete unwanted multiquote

 

[TriangleMonkey]

My parents fled that shithole while pregnant with me


Ive visited twice as an adult


The boxing gym is still on Calle Cuba 815, ask for coach “Nardo” he is a legend there

 

[fungi]

Cuba has the freedom to manage its own resources, it just simply can't do business with the US as they declared themselves enemy of America.

 

[fungi]

Your points are valid and worth talking about for different reasons, especially to highlight that the US and others aren't "The good guys" opposite Communism as we're referencing it. My belief is simply that Communism goes against human nature so it will never, ever work regardless of intent, foreign influence, or lack thereof.

Corruption, greed, graft, and theft of resources is seen in every form of government because most humans have at least one character flaw that is a weakness to be exploited for whatever gain they or others may get. Addiction, greed, ego, or what have you.

Real, "good" communism isn't absent because of competing forms of government and rivals "defeating it". It fails from within because of the flaws of those who practice it; flaws capitalists, dyed in the wool Democracy supporters, and others can work against.

Capitalism doesn't work either.

It always ends up as an oligopoly. And always the very few rich expoiting the masses of poor. Middle class in the west was allowed to exist only because there was a threat of communism taking over.

That was why capital owners tolerated trade unions, etc. Now that Soviet Union is gone and the threat of communism with it, the "owners" finally are getting rid of the middle class. You will own nothing and you will be happy. "We" will call it "Inclusive capitalism"...

And "we" will find you an excuse to feel good about that, i.e. "climate change", "Save the Planet!!!", "insert some bs here", etc.

 

[fungi]

What countries besides the US ( which I don't agree with) have a trade embargo on Cuba. Hell US tourists still go there by going through Canada and the Cubans don't stamp their passport so they don't get in trouble. The US knows about it and just let's it go.

Cuba is open to most other countries.

Theoretical question:
What would happen if China or Russia or any other country decides to invest in Cuba? Ports, infrastructure, business, etc?

How quickly would the US decide to "bring democracy" to that country?

 

[Scerpi]

I'm an MMTer I don't view debt as an issue or a problem. It is a capitalist construct. And the chains capitalism has put the world into is exactly why they will side with China and Russia who will not hesitate to give them aid no strings attached.

Cuba... Before/After Castro

At least they're all living in squalor "EQUALLY" .... ooops

 

[oldshadow]

Theoretical question:
What would happen if China or Russia or any other country decides to invest in Cuba? Ports, infrastructure, business, etc?

How quickly would the US decide to "bring democracy" to that country?

At one time Russia was investing a hell of a lot of money in Cuba. That was when the cold war was going on. The only thing that the US went off about was when they put nuclear weapons there.

Russia stopped supporting them. Now they are trading partners with a number of countries.

One of their problems is getting people to invest in the tourism industry.

So as long as they don't start putting nuclear weapons there I don't think the US cares.

Infact most people would like to see the US allow travel and investment there.

The problem is the Cuba exiles in the US throw a fit if anything like that is talked about.

 

[fungi]

At one time Russia was investing a hell of a lot of money in Cuba. That was when the cold war was going on. The only thing that the US went off about was when they put nuclear weapons there.

Russia stopped supporting them. Now they are trading partners with a number of countries.

One of their problems is getting people to invest in the tourism industry.

Exactly, it was only used as a military base during cold war.
Now, the message of the US to Cuba is more or less clear: "we will own those resources, or nobody else will".

P.s. I'm not saying Communism is an ideal economic model. I'm saying the US had a lot to do with current Cuban economic problems.

 

[oldshadow]

Exactly, it was only used as a military base during cold war.
Now, the message of the US to Cuba is more or less clear: "we will own those resources, or nobody else will".

P.s. I'm not saying Communism is an ideal economic model. I'm saying the US had a lot to do with current Cuban economic problems.

During the cold war they were a satellite of Russia and the US treated them as such.

 

[Scheme]

Corrosion costs the world like 4% of it's total GDP per year. It's crazy how much money is required to be spent just on maintenance/replacing corroded material. Obviously if you don't spend that money things start looking like the OP.