International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[iwannabeadored]

I've refuted your claims about apartheid and "Jewish colonization" and the best argument you can present is "You're talking in circles" and "Whataboutism!"

You're just talking out of your ass, ya silly goose. Just give it up already.

Yeah you’re ll

Like I said, they border Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon already. They have a tougher time dealing with the ones who want them eradicated and act on it.


Again, more misinformation.

Again, you got for brains kflo.

The Gaza-Egypt Rafah crossing explained: ‘It is not a normal border’

For Gaza's two million residents, the Rafah border with Egypt serves as a vital lifeline. Over the years, this crossing has seen numerous shifts, openings, and closures, prompting the construction of…

www.france24.com

“Theoretically, Rafah should be controlled by the Palestinian and Egyptian authorities,” says Lorenzo Navone, a sociologist specialised in borders and conflicts at the University of Strasbourg who has carried out significant research on the crossing. “But Israel still has influence over the crossing.”

It doesn’t work the way a normal border does. It is selective, it can be activated or deactivated. It’s not an invisible border like the ones you find in the Schengen Area or across state lines in the US. You can’t cross freely with your car. It’s not open 24 hours a day, seven days a week,” says Navone.

The Rafah border was open for 245 days in 2022, according to the UN. And so far in 2023, it has been open for 138 days.

Amid outcry over civilian casualties in Gaza, experts note Israel's so-called 'dumb bombs' can be used with precision​

So-called "dumb bombs" can be deployed in conjunction with dive bombing to improve accuracy, according to experts.

The unguided, so-called "dumb bombs" used by Israel in Gaza can achieve heightened accuracy when deployed in conjunction with dive bombing and other tactics, experts tell ABC News -- an issue that has come to the forefront amid the outcry over mounting civilian casualties there.

Roughly 40-45% of the air-to-ground munitions used by Israel in Gaza have been unguided, so-called "dumb bombs," a U.S. official confirmed to ABC News, summarizing the findings of an American intelligence report. The rest of the bombs have been precision-guided munitions, the assessment added. Israel's rate of "dumb bomb" usage was first reported by CNN on Thursday.

The numbers assessed by the U.S. intelligence report would suggest a historically high level of precision weapons usage in urban warfare, according to ABC News contributor Steve Ganyard, a former State Department official and Marine Corps fighter pilot.

"Precision weapons are expensive and in short supply compared to 'dumb' bombs, but if Israel is using precision aerial weapons 55-60% of the time, then that is more than any country in the history of urban warfare," Ganyard said.

Furthermore, experts and U.S. officials told ABC News there are tactics that can be used to drop these weapons, which are more neutrally referred to as "unguided munitions," with precision, and to largely avoid needlessly killing or injuring civilians.
****



you’re again completely making up 95%. you think they can eliminate Hamas by just taking out “heads of terrorist organization”?

I’m confused, you posted a link to a cnn article posting how they are using dummy bombs and how there are ways of using these bombs that Israel isn’t doing lol? Are you stupid?

I said they do have capability to take out high ranking people in terrorist orgs but they are choosing to inflict mass damage. Where is the lie?

He wasn’t saying that before 10/7, as I linked.

I’ll repeat it:

[netanyahu] settled on the idea that he’d be open to a Palestinian state - as long as it has no military or security power, an arrangement that would have no parallel among modern sovereign states.

“I’m certainly willing to have them have all the powers that they need to govern themselves, but none of the powers that can threaten us,” Netanyahu told Tapper in Jerusalem on Tuesday.

This has been dubunked in multiple threads but you keep repeating a lie to make it a truth. There are numerous quotes of netyanhu stating that you cannot allow a Palestinian state BEFORE October 7.

He did provide some new details about his conversations with President Biden on the matter, explaining he once told Biden, “[A]ny final agreement between Israel and the Palestinians would have Israel controlling security – overriding security responsibility in the area west of the Jordan.

Blinken visit reaches new urgency as Israeli, Palestinian tensions boil
“I said, you can’t divide who controls the airspace [between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean]. You have to cross it. It takes two minutes for an airplane to cross it. So what, one minute Israel controls it and the other minute the Palestinians? Of course, it’s not workable.

“He said to me, as others have said to me – ‘you know, but that’s not perfect sovereignty.’

“And I said, you’re right. But – I don’t know what you’d call it, but it gives them the opportunity to control their lives, to elect their officials, to run their economy, to run their institutions, to have their flag and to have their parliament, but we have to have overriding security control.”

 

[Strychnine]

I did. It's precisely why I asked if their goal is just record everything with no requirements of proof.

“We have a historical mission,” Elkayam-Levy explains to me. “We are not a prosecution [vehicle]. We are not an investigation. We have a different role. We are keeping all accounts, even the smallest piece of information, just a sentence perhaps that comes in about a young woman, [logged on a form] for historical purposes, to make sure that the voices of women will be heard, that this information will be kept diligently, in the most dedicated way. [The aim] is to establish an archive under the [strictest] international standard.”

It is not beholden on the commission to prove anything in a court of law, as is the case with the international war crimes tribunal. Its remit is confined to logging and verifying testimonies. This mission to build such an archive of crimes against humanity in a country founded after the Holocaust echoes .


I mean sure log every allegation and accusation. Should be happening for every part of the conflict. But if you aren't a investigation at the least how is it possibly verified


( it's why I'm confused and asked )

From what I read; she's taking the initiative because the U.N. is dragging its heels on doing anything. If any investigations do arise, the U.N./Hague should be at the forefront. She's gathering information and if legal entity is interested in her findings, I'm sure she'd be willing to share them.

 

[Strychnine]

Hamas says October 7 attack was a ‘necessary step’, admits to ‘some faults’​

Mourners attend the funeral of a family killed in a kibbutz in southern Israel


"The Palestinian group Hamas has said there were “faults” in the October 7 attack it led on southern Israel, but claimed its fighters only targeted Israeli soldiers and people carrying weapons.

In a 16-page report titled “Our Narrative” and published on Sunday, Hamas, which governs Gaza, said it wanted to “clarify” the background and dynamics of the surprise attack it calls Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.


In its first public report since the attack, Hamas said it was “a necessary step and a normal response to confront all Israeli conspiracies against the Palestinian people”.

Early on October 7, Hamas fighters stormed communities along Israel’s southern fence with Gaza. At least 1,139 people, mostly civilians, were killed in the attack, according to an Al Jazeera tally based on official Israeli statistics, and about 240 others were seized as captives."

MSN

I've seen video where Hamas murderers shot an old Israeli man in the back as he was trying to run away.

Spoiler

Hamas can go screw.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Hamas says October 7 attack was a ‘necessary step’, admits to ‘some faults’​

Mourners attend the funeral of a family killed in a kibbutz in southern Israel


"The Palestinian group Hamas has said there were “faults” in the October 7 attack it led on southern Israel, but claimed its fighters only targeted Israeli soldiers and people carrying weapons.

In a 16-page report titled “Our Narrative” and published on Sunday, Hamas, which governs Gaza, said it wanted to “clarify” the background and dynamics of the surprise attack it calls Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.


In its first public report since the attack, Hamas said it was “a necessary step and a normal response to confront all Israeli conspiracies against the Palestinian people”.

Early on October 7, Hamas fighters stormed communities along Israel’s southern fence with Gaza. At least 1,139 people, mostly civilians, were killed in the attack, according to an Al Jazeera tally based on official Israeli statistics, and about 240 others were seized as captives."

MSN

I've seen video where Hamas murderers shot an old Israeli man in the back as he was trying to run away.

Spoiler

Hamas can go screw.

I clicked on the spoiler button, thinking it was a video of the Hamas terrorists murdering the old man, and I get something totally unexpected.

 

[kflo]

Yeah you’re ll


Again, you got for brains kflo.

The Gaza-Egypt Rafah crossing explained: ‘It is not a normal border’

For Gaza's two million residents, the Rafah border with Egypt serves as a vital lifeline. Over the years, this crossing has seen numerous shifts, openings, and closures, prompting the construction of…

www.france24.com

“Theoretically, Rafah should be controlled by the Palestinian and Egyptian authorities,” says Lorenzo Navone, a sociologist specialised in borders and conflicts at the University of Strasbourg who has carried out significant research on the crossing. “But Israel still has influence over the crossing.”

It doesn’t work the way a normal border does. It is selective, it can be activated or deactivated. It’s not an invisible border like the ones you find in the Schengen Area or across state lines in the US. You can’t cross freely with your car. It’s not open 24 hours a day, seven days a week,” says Navone.

The Rafah border was open for 245 days in 2022, according to the UN. And so far in 2023, it has been open for 138 days.

And? How does that address what I said?

I’m confused, you posted a link to a cnn article posting how they are using dummy bombs and how there are ways of using these bombs that Israel isn’t doing lol? Are you stupid?

seems like you’re the one who isn’t following. The article says Israel IS doing it.

From the article:
"Israel is doing everything it can to mitigate civilian harm and casualties, including with its use of unguided munitions," the DOD official said.

I said they do have capability to take out high ranking people in terrorist orgs but they are choosing to inflict mass damage. Where is the lie?

You made up the “95%”. It’s a lie.

And taking out high ranking people is something they are already doing. that in itself doesn’t do much to Hamas ability to rule Gaza or carry out terror attacks.

This has been dubunked in multiple threads but you keep repeating a lie to make it a truth. There are numerous quotes of netyanhu stating that you cannot allow a Palestinian state BEFORE October 7.

It’s literally quotes from bibi from before 10/7 in 2023.

 

[Strychnine]

I clicked on the spoiler button, thinking it was a video of the Hamas terrorists murdering the old man, and I get something totally unexpected.

Yeah, I'm not watching that again.

Nightmare fuel.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Yeah, I'm not watching that again.

Nightmare fuel.

I meant I expected to see a snuff video and instead I got a My Little Pony gif.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

Well, if you're going to cherry pick one terrorist incident, you might as well post them all:

List of killings and massacres in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You'll see that the Arabs initiated the first 5 massacres and are responsible for most of them.

Like I said, just quit your disingenuous bullshit.

The Arabs have every right to be angry and protest that a group of people not orginally from the area (from Europe) come to their lands and start to disrupt the order of the land and demand to be in charge. The Jews on the other hand came into the country with an agenda to take control and dominate the region and created terrorist groups and propagated acts of terror to get their way.

Its as simple as the fact that one group of people is fighting to preserve their way of life and protect their rights while the other wants to take what doesnt belong to them and must resort to proganda and distortion of history to gain support for their actions.

 

[RabbitPunch36]

You bring up the persecution of the Jews under Christian rule, but don't acknowledge the persecution under Muslim rule. There's nothing to be grateful about.

History of the Jews under Muslim rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You want to keep going?

Nothing to be grateful of right? How about when the Ottoman Empire went out of there way to allow tens of thousands of Jews fleeing the Spanish inquistion to settle in their lands or the various other times they allowed Jews fleeing European prosecution to settle in the Ottoman Empire.

Groups of Jewish people exiled from France during the reign of Sultan Murad II and the Ashkenazi Jews expelled by the Duke of Bavaria Louis IX in 1470 took refuge in the Ottoman Empire.

Sultan Bayezid II accepted tens of thousands of Sephardic Jews escaping from Spain in 1492. They settled in various cities such as Salonika (Thessaloniki), Smyrna (İzmir) and Constantinople in particular. Likewise, groups of Jews who managed to escape massacres in Poland and Ukraine in 1660 settled in the Ottoman Empire, as well.

 

[BIKES!]

The only statistics that matters to me is this:

Terrorists gonna terrorism. Leave it to woke self hating brainwashed Dems to rally behind them

 

[Anewt]

The Arabs have every right to be angry and protest that a group of people not orginally from the area (from Europe) come to their lands and start to disrupt the order of the land and demand to be in charge. The Jews on the other hand came into the country with an agenda to take control and dominate the region and created terrorist groups and propagated acts of terror to get their way.

Its as simple as the fact that one group of people is fighting to preserve their way of life and protect their rights while the other wants to take what doesnt belong to them and must resort to proganda and distortion of history to gain support for their actions.

eh hamas isn't fighting to protect the rights of Palestinians... nor particularly to preserve their way of life..... I mean they've abused plenty of Palestinian rights and are as corrupt as fuck .... not to mention theys killed and tortured plenty of Palestinians for " political support " of opposition. ( not just perceived Israeli support ).

All pre this shit show..

So fuck them Completely

As much as I disagree with the current actions I have no doubts Israel and many Israelis do believe they are also fighting to preserve their way of life and citizens with these actions .

So the reasons for fighting are relatively similar unfortunately including revenge


( regular soldiers )

 

[iwannabeadored]

And? How does that address what I said?


seems like you’re the one who isn’t following. The article says Israel IS doing it.

From the article:
"Israel is doing everything it can to mitigate civilian harm and casualties, including with its use of unguided munitions," the DOD official said.



You made up the “95%”. It’s a lie.

And taking out high ranking people is something they are already doing. that in itself doesn’t do much to Hamas ability to rule Gaza or carry out terror attacks.


It’s literally quotes from bibi from before 10/7 in 2023.

No you said that bibi has only been saying that the Palestinians shouldn’t have a state after 10/7. This has been debunked by multiple posters in this thread but you keep repeating this lie. You provided a quote of him talking about a potential stste but there’s numerous quotes where he says this should not happen.

 

[iwannabeadored]

And? How does that address what I said?


seems like you’re the one who isn’t following. The article says Israel IS doing it.

From the article:
"Israel is doing everything it can to mitigate civilian harm and casualties, including with its use of unguided munitions," the DOD official said.

What are you trying to dispute here? Are you doing that thing again where you argue in circles like you do with most posters here?

My point was that Israel has been bombing with dummy bombs and just bombing indiscriminately and killing Palestinians.

I pointed to the fact that they have a high tech military and a capability to drone kill high ranking terrorists yet they choose to inflict maximum damage and kill civilians instead.

What are you trying to argue here other than my point?

You made up the “95%”. It’s a lie.

And taking out high ranking people is something they are already doing. that in itself doesn’t do much to Hamas ability to rule Gaza or carry out terror attacks.


It’s literally quotes from bibi from before 10/7 in 2023.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

The Arabs have every right to be angry and protest that a group of people not orginally from the area (from Europe) come to their lands and start to disrupt the order of the land and demand to be in charge. The Jews on the other hand came into the country with an agenda to take control and dominate the region and created terrorist groups and propagated acts of terror to get their way.

Its as simple as the fact that one group of people is fighting to preserve their way of life and protect their rights while the other wants to take what doesnt belong to them and must resort to proganda and distortion of history to gain support for their actions.

Ah, and where was the anger from the Arabs towards the Turks when the Ottomans conquered Palestine in the 16th century and ruled it for four centuries?

Nothing to be grateful of right? How about when the Ottoman Empire went out of there way to allow tens of thousands of Jews fleeing the Spanish inquistion to settle in their lands or the various other times they allowed Jews fleeing European prosecution to settle in the Ottoman Empire.

Groups of Jewish people exiled from France during the reign of Sultan Murad II and the Ashkenazi Jews expelled by the Duke of Bavaria Louis IX in 1470 took refuge in the Ottoman Empire.

Sultan Bayezid II accepted tens of thousands of Sephardic Jews escaping from Spain in 1492. They settled in various cities such as Salonika (Thessaloniki), Smyrna (İzmir) and Constantinople in particular. Likewise, groups of Jews who managed to escape massacres in Poland and Ukraine in 1660 settled in the Ottoman Empire, as well.

Nothing to be grateful about. I don't want to repeat myself. For every act of "kindness", I can present two acts of atrocity committed against the Jews by the Muslims.

For starters:

The 1033 Fez massacre was an event where, following their conquest of the city from the Maghrawa tribe, the forces of Abu'l Kamal Tamim,[1] chief of the Banu Ifran tribe, perpetrated a massacre of Jews in Fez in an anti-Jewish pogrom.


The city of Fez in Morocco had been contested between the Zenata Berber tribes of Miknasa, Maghrawa and Banu Ifran for the previous half century, in the aftermath of the fall of the Idrisid dynasty.[1] In 1033, according to Ibn Khaldun (d. 1406), Abu'l Kamal Tamim, the Banu Ifran chief, was lord of Salé on the Atlantic coast, while Fez was under the control of Hammama, chief of the Maghrawa.[2]

Tamim's forces killed over six thousand Jews, appropriated their belongings, and captured the Jewish women of the city.[3][4][5][6] The killings took place in the month of Jumaada al-Akhir 424 AH (May–June 1033 AD).[3] The killings have been called a "pogrom" by some modern writers.[7][8]

The 1066 Granada massacre took place on 30 December 1066 (9 Tevet 4827; 10 Safar 459 AH) when a Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, in the Taifa of Granada,[1] killed and crucified[2] the Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela, and massacred much of the Jewish population of the city.[3][4]

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

'Holocaust isn’t related to Jews': Russia slams Germany over support of Israel at The Hague

Russia doing Russia things. Slava ukraini!

 

[PEB]

What have been Trump statements on the matter seeing he is running for President he should weigh in on the war?

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

What have been Trump statements on the matter seeing he is running for President he should weigh in on the war?

He supports the state of Israel. In one of his recent rallies, he called for the deportation of Hamas sympathizers. Also Ivanka and Jared Kushner recently visited Israel and were given a tour of the sites where the massacre took place.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I've seen video where Hamas murderers shot an old Israeli man in the back as he was trying to run away.

Hamas can go screw.

It's a Rape of Manila type logic where "everybody who is not one of our soldiers or civilians counts as an enemy guerrilla and has to be put to death".

 

[aries]

Hurray!

Now the world needs to work in unison to oust Netanyahu and Likud

I think most sane people will be in total agreement on that, as well as removing Hamas permanently

Netanyahu should be under no illusions. He should have zero support internationally or domestically.

Time to go, forever.

Bibi has to go. Bleating on about security all the time but he let this happen. And that's not even taking into account the mass of corruption charges against him. And that's not even counting that he helped fund Hamas. He is an absolute piece of shit.

 

[PEB]

He supports the state of Israel. In one of his recent rallies, he called for the deportation of Hamas sympathizers. Also Ivanka and Jared Kushner recently visited Israel and were given a tour of the sites where the massacre took place.

Interesting given I have heard zero about these facts on the media. Media breathless discussions of Biden blunders yet peep about Trump supporting Bibi.