Social Major study finds Gender Affirming Care has no significant effect on suicide rate

[Andy Capp]

Yeah...all the special treatment and parades...Brutal.

Special treatment. Right. Like the kid who was beaten half to death in a washroom because the law said they had to use it or face sanction. That kind of special treatment?

 

[NoSmilez]

So that means that kids WONT kill themselves if they’re not allowed to change their sex through surgery, right?

No. It's more like these people have other issues including their gender dysphoria. They need to get treated for that too. Treating their gender issue doesn't solve everything else.

 

[terrapin]

We’ve done this dance before and you always reset to that position.

There are degrees.

I think Bob is a great guy and I don’t think he hates trans people. That said he’s conservative so he fights trans rights. If you look at the article he posted and search for it, you’ll find it’s overwhelmingly shared by religious groups that think trans people are an abomination.

That’s the tent you’re both in even if you aren’t extreme.

See this is the poison and rot that conversation in the states has produced.

The extremes you are pointing out exist here in the states, but there's no right wing Christian bigoted movement in Europe and they're producing the most interesting and thoughtful discussions on this issue. Largely because there isn't extreme leftists and extreme bigots duking it out like there are here in the states.

Even saying that the right is trying to limit or get rid of trans rights is a false statement if you try to apply it globally. There are many valid points of disagreement that can be spoken about without pretending that the goal is to end trans rights.

I get that here in the states there really are right wing bigots who want to genuinely persecute trans people but getting hung up on that point keeps many good people from actually thinking about the issues deeply.

And in the case of people that are extreme on the right here in the states, it is sometimes the case that a broken clock is right twice a day and they often find themselves to be on the right side of SOME of these issues, even if it is possibly by accident or because they arrived at the same position through a different faulty reasoning.

Would you really categorize Kathleen Stock as a right wing bigot for instance? She's a lesbian and on the left politically in Great Britain ffs. I also think that she is an atheist.

 

[PhitePhan]

No. It's more like these people have other issues including their gender dysphoria. They need to get treated for that too. Treating their gender issue doesn't solve everything else.

So the study says they WILL kill themselves if we don’t let them have sex change surgery?

Cause that is the claim, that denying access to sex changes leads to their deaths.

‘Kids will kill themselves’: Providers of gender affirming care say anti-trans bill will be a direct cause of suicide

Owners of the only clinic in Mississippi that exclusively provides gender-affirming care to trans people worry HB 1125 could be deadly.

mississippitoday.org

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

I'll never understand the kind of vile human being that thinks cutting a child's dick off or ripping thier vagina inside out is "ok". Sick people that should not be allowed to remain in civilized society.

 

[koquerelle]

You generalized all conservatives. You're actually saying that conservatives that don't agree with puberty blockers or elective genital surgeries for minors...all fear their own child being gay or trans?? That's actually your stance?

Not only that. He thinks only conservatives have doubts.

 

[NoSmilez]

So the study says they WILL kill themselves if we don’t let them have sex change surgery?

Cause that is the claim, that denying access to sex changes leads to their deaths.

‘Kids will kill themselves’: Providers of gender affirming care say anti-trans bill will be a direct cause of suicide

Owners of the only clinic in Mississippi that exclusively provides gender-affirming care to trans people worry HB 1125 could be deadly.

mississippitoday.org

What does your link or statement have to do with that study? I think you are confused on what the study was about.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Those are some nasty generalizations, and beneath you TBH.

If someone thought the puberty blockers and surgeries were dangerous but HATED the kids taking the drugs and having those surgeries...wouldn't they root FOR them to partake in those dangerous things?

He's right though, its clear that a significant portion of the conservative movement has a deep disdain for queers like trans and gays and that this motivates their policymaking in regards to thing like gender affirming care.

#notall of course but the ones who don't will rarely, if ever, push back against the ones who do publicly.

 

[RockyLockridge]

But I think that's for general pop, right? This is s a study of a selected group of people, a large number of whom have psychiatric issues.

Suicide has been going up at a noticeable rate over the last few years, though.

Mental health issues also going up at a noticeably high rate aswell

 

[NoSmilez]

Here is a copy of the study. I just skimmed through it. The gist I got from the conclusion and findings is you need to treat other mental illnesses along with the gender dysphoria. Their definition of treating gender dysphoria isn't only gender reassignment. It's just recognizing and getting treatment for it. It doesn't draw some conclusion of gender reassignment is going to make them free from thoughts of suicidal. They have other issues they need to be treated for. It's like it might make them less suicidal since it is trying to address one of their issues but it doesn't mean anything if they have other problems they don't choose to address.

I again make the disclaimer that I skimmed through it while eating lunch. I hope others will read this and join the discussion.

All-cause and suicide mortalities among adolescents and young adults who contacted specialised gender identity services in Finland in 1996–2019: a register study

All-cause and suicide mortalities of gender-referred adolescents compared with matched controls have not been studied, and particularly the role of psychiatric morbidity in mortality is unknown.To examine all-cause and suicide mortalities in gender-referred ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[tenniswhiz]

That not evenly remotely close to how academic institutions work, especially in science departments. That's hind brain conspiracy thinking.

Unless you mean the replication crisis, which had no political agenda apart from greed and hubris (and ivy league aholery). I'd argue clinical psychology etc barely classifies as a science anyway

No, here’s one infuriating example:

Most anti-Asian attacks committed by whites – new study

Despite social media-generated impressions that anti

socialinnovation.ucr.edu

Several people have examined her “study”, which is laughable.

Sorry bud, but it’s EXACTLY how it works.
If she had found anything except for what she claims to have found, she would have been cancelled from academia. Instead she earned some virtue points.

 

[terrapin]

He's right though, its clear that a significant portion of the conservative movement has a deep disdain for queers like trans and gays and that this motivates their policymaking in regards to thing like gender affirming care.

#notall of course but the ones who don't will rarely, if ever, push back against the ones who do publicly.

I'm not sure this is completely accurate, although neither one of us really knows the statistics on this topic. If sherdog is an accurate reflection of the conservative population then a good portion of them are bigots!! But I really doubt sheepdog or Twitter accurately represents what conservatives feel in their hearts.

But I don't deny that it's a big problem with conservatives that there's a bigotry and hatred for gay people and trans people. But I'm just wondering if the numbers are really what it looks like when you're online with the cesspool of humanity!!

Here is a copy of the study. I just skimmed through it. The gist I got from the conclusion and findings is you need to treat other mental illnesses along with the gender dysphoria. Their definition of treating gender dysphoria isn't only gender reassignment. It's just recognizing and getting treatment for it. It doesn't draw some conclusion of gender reassignment is going to make them free from thoughts of suicidal. They have other issues they need to be treated for. It's like it might make them less suicidal since it is trying to address one of their issues but it doesn't mean anything if they have other problems they don't choose to address.

I again make the disclaimer that I skimmed through it while eating lunch. I hope others will read this and join the discussion.

All-cause and suicide mortalities among adolescents and young adults who contacted specialised gender identity services in Finland in 1996–2019: a register study

All-cause and suicide mortalities of gender-referred adolescents compared with matched controls have not been studied, and particularly the role of psychiatric morbidity in mortality is unknown.To examine all-cause and suicide mortalities in gender-referred ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The issue lies in whether or not they're being given enough time to really explore those other issues though. It has been discovered that some girls who reject their bodies and want to be boys are being molested at home by a family member. They're not honest or up front about this sometimes ever, but obviously some psychologists have been able to coax this out of them. So they want to become a boy to get rid of their vagina and their breasts because they see that as the reason they're being molested.

A quick pipeline that does not take lots of time to really explore many other types of comorbidities that could lead to wanting gender reassignment really needs to take place.

If you've ever been involved in therapy or known therapists or done therapy yourself, you know that sometimes a person who's being molested by their dad will not become honest about that for a very long time.... And it's entirely possible that even if they're being molested, they don't make the connection between that and wanting gender reassignment surgery. That could also take a good deal of therapy to come to understand.

My experience with the medical community, the for-profit medical system, is that that kind of time is really not taken for most issues.

 

[kflo]

I'll never understand the kind of vile human being that thinks cutting a child's dick off or ripping thier vagina inside out is "ok". Sick people that should not be allowed to remain in civilized society.

That almost never happens and isn’t the recommended practice and isn’t allowed in most treatment facilities in the US.

 

[kflo]

He's right though, its clear that a significant portion of the conservative movement has a deep disdain for queers like trans and gays and that this motivates their policymaking in regards to thing like gender affirming care.

#notall of course but the ones who don't will rarely, if ever, push back against the ones who do publicly.

They don’t give a shit about research or statistics unless it supports their position. They only have one goal. And it’s not patient outcomes….

 

[Levi_]

Credible like you claiming multiple times in the other thread that YOU started that it was all documented by pharmacies that the guy took 200+ covid vaccines, but you then ignored multiple times where I pointed out that the study itself said mire than half were "self reported"?

That's off topic here, sure. But you speaking of credibility is comical.

You are an awful big fan of mine talking about me in multiple threads; I have no idea who you even are. So you say MORE than half were self-reported?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/06/health/covid-217-shots-hypervaccination-lancet/index.html

Of those, 134 were confirmed by a prosecutor and through vaccination center documentation; the remaining 83 were self-reported, according to the study.

We see who is really comical.<45>

 

[mkess101]

We’ve done this dance before and you always reset to that position.

There are degrees.

I think Bob is a great guy and I don’t think he hates trans people. That said he’s conservative so he fights trans rights. If you look at the article he posted and search for it, you’ll find it’s overwhelmingly shared by religious groups that think trans people are an abomination.

That’s the tent you’re both in even if you aren’t extreme.

Yeah, and it depends what "rights".

Right to exist, be shown courtesy, etc.? I don't want any of that taken away from anyone, trans people included.

"Rights" for biologically born males to compete in women's sports? "Rights" of misguided or in some cases insane parents and "doctors" to fuck with kids body chemistries and cause irreparable harm? Those aren't "rights" in my book, so maybe that's where we have the disconnect.

 

[NoSmilez]

The issue lies in whether or not they're being given enough time to really explore those other issues though. It has been discovered that some girls who reject their bodies and want to be boys are being molested at home by a family member. They're not honest or up front about this sometimes ever, but obviously some psychologists have been able to coax this out of them. So they want to become a boy to get rid of their vagina and their breasts because they see that as the reason they're being molested.

A quick pipeline that does not take lots of time to really explore many other types of comorbidities that could lead to wanting gender reassignment really needs to take place.

If you've ever been involved in therapy or known therapists or done therapy yourself, you know that sometimes a person who's being molested by their dad will not become honest about that for a very long time.... And it's entirely possible that even if they're being molested, they don't make the connection between that and wanting gender reassignment surgery. That could also take a good deal of therapy to come to understand.

My experience with the medical community, the for-profit medical system, is that that kind of time is really not taken for most issues.

The study is stating these people need to explore other issues along with their gender dysphoria. I honestly don't know enough about the root cause of gender euphoria. I don't know if all of them are molested or not. The study is simply stating treating gender dysphoria along with other mental health issues leads to better outcomes. This is not saying the study doesn't have weaknesses.

The study is based in Finland. I don't know enough about their medical reimbursements to the practitioners. I am under the assumption they have universal healthcare.

 

[kflo]

Yeah, and it depends what "rights".

Right to exist, be shown courtesy, etc.? I don't want any of that taken away from anyone, trans people included.

"Rights" for biologically born males to compete in women's sports? "Rights" of misguided or in some cases insane parents and "doctors" to fuck with kids body chemistries and cause irreparable harm? Those aren't "rights" in my book, so maybe that's where we have the disconnect.

and what if it doesn't cause "irreparable harm"? what if the potential risks are honestly weighed against the potential benefits?

people want (the government) to prescribe what's available for individuals.

 

[mkess101]

You are an awful big fan of mine talking about me in multiple threads; I have no idea who you even are. So you say MORE than half were self-reported?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/06/health/covid-217-shots-hypervaccination-lancet/index.html

Of those, 134 were confirmed by a prosecutor and through vaccination center documentation; the remaining 83 were self-reported, according to the study.

We see who is really comical.<45>

From the actual study:

Furthermore, records for individual vaccinations (“individually confirmed” when
documented by vaccination centers or “individually reported” when self-documented) only exist
for 108 out of 217 total self-reported vaccinations,


"Confirmed by a prosecutor" means jack shit if he wasn't there to witness said vaccinations. There's only DOCUMENTATION for 108 of 217. Do the math, genius. (And it's laughable that's what you are caught up on, and not that you tried to claim in that thread they were essentially ALL documented and given at pharmacies as opposed to half of them LMAO).

I'm a fan of exposing dipshits that clog this forum with inanity, and you make it pretty easy.

 

[mkess101]

and what if it doesn't cause "irreparable harm"? what if the potential risks are honestly weighed against the potential benefits?

people want (the government) to prescribe what's available for individuals.

Yes, in some cases the government (ie, society since we participate in deciding who makes up the government) makes certain rules that prohibit what can be done to children--even by physicians and their parents.